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Alright, enough personal attacks. If you guys don't stop the thread will be locked.

anomie wrote:Note that the other way, too.

"After attending an event where ways to avoid being raped and an event where an individual was raped by a police impersonator were discussed, we were crossing a parking lot when someone attempted to identify themselves as a police officer with a badge that we did not recognize".

It's entirely possible for *both* sides to have reasonable cause for their actions in a situation where something bad like this goes down. Although they probably wouldn't use the words I used above.

Reasonable suspicion was totally justified, and approaching the girls in a calm manner and properly identifying themselves is appropriate. However, going Rambo when the girls started to get away with a perceived 12-pack is where the reasonable part went to unreasonable in the officers actions. In turn, the girls should not be so paranoid and locking themselves in the car and then making a phone call to 911 would be appropriate on their part. However, young girls do not often will let their imagination run away with itself and freak out. Trust me on this one, I have a 20 year old girl in college. And while she is probably one of the most level headed and mature young ladies I know, she has some friends and acquaintances her age that are as dingy as bats.

MasterOfNone wrote:

EEllis wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

EEllis wrote:Your interpretation is simply not that of our courts. If they believed a person was most likely underage and that they observed what looked like alcohol then that equates to RS if the officer can articulate why they think that.

I would argue that for it to look like alcohol, it actually has to look like alcohol...Merely not looking like something that's not alcohol shouldn't be good enough, IMHO.

HUH? Look the package, IMO, is such that if it were sitting on a table and I was 15' away and looked over I could easily think it was beer. That's all it takes.

This is the point I was getting at: If one can't identify the box, why would one think it is beer and not soda or water? it seems there is a predisposition to assume the worst of an unknown.

Here is the brand and the boxes they come in.


Wonder what they would have done to them with this?


In the end, this was nothing but a bunch of overzealous ABC officers who were bent on catching some college kids with beer to justify their stake-out. They saw a box that didn't have a regular recognized logo on it and jumped to conclusions that it was beer. I really think they need to review their policies and their methods of intercepting minors who may be in possession to keep from someone getting hurt or worse.

My personally preferred method of stopping this type of thing is to utilize minors to go into stores and attempt to buy with no ID. If they sell to them, then you pull their license. We used to sting liquor stores in our town and would frequently get someone who would sell with no ID and never ask one question to a young person who no way even looked to be 21.

OK folks, it's getting a little personal and heated and comments are starting to become personal attcks. Drop the discussion if you can't discuss without attacking the other person posting.

EEllis wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:
Agreed on all points.
A simple blast of lights and siren would have worked here.
Seven officers? Are the local college/underage kids all hardened Zeta Narco commandos?

You did hear that they girls were first approached by a single female agent and I guess that scared them so badly they locked themselves in the SUV. You don't think the lights and siren might of scared them also? Sound like that would've been over kill also. But go ahead why let reality get in the way of a good rant.

That's the story from the ABC, but the girls when interviewed never stated that were approached by a female first. All that ever comes out is they were already in their vehicle when they were approached by people with unidentifiable badges in plain clothes, one of the plain clothes people drew a gun, and they drove off calling 911 to verify if they were real officers. They stopped when a car with emergency lights pulled them over. The state quickly dropped all charges, so I can guarantee you something doesn't match with the officers statements and actions and the girl's testimony.

EEllis wrote: For many people the use of Alcohol by minors is a major issue complete with lobbying groups and major political muscle. The idea that the agency responsible for alcohol regulation in the State should ignore minors with alcohol is at the least politically unrealistic.

Then we return to someone calling for firings without even an accusation of laws broken or policies violated.

Alcohol being a major issue or not, these officers need to realize who they are dealing with. I have a daughter in college and should they have treated her this way I would be all over the agency and the officers. College age girls may or may not be very mature (many are not). These girls were out and doing nothing wrong. All of a sudden they have a bunch of people running at them and yelling. I will bet they panicked and never heard a word anyone was saying because they were scared out off their wits. I hope the parents sue the agency and the officers involved, if nothing else to try and drive policy change when dealing with these little things.

Bottom line, underage college age kids drink and it has been that way for eons. If they locked up every one of them that had a beer on the weekend then they would have to turn the dorms into jail cells. I dealt with numerous high school and underage college kids with alcohol when I was a police officer. And while it is illegal for them to have it, it is not a felony issue. If you can stop them easily, then that is great. If not and they get into their vehicle to leave, get their license number and have them intercepted by a uniformed officer and meet them to do a search. If they really did have beer and ditch it somewhere before they get searched, so what? Pretty simple to get them stopped from drinking it or passing it on to someone else rather than doing a full tactical take down of a couple of young girls.

Way overboard for a potential of minors possessing a supposed12-pack of beer. Even if they are trying to get evidence to arrest the supplier, it was stupid to bring guns into play. I caught quite a few under age people with beer back years ago. If they were cooperative and not intoxicated, they usually walked with no beer and a good warning the first time.