Search found 5 matches

by Keith B
Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:35 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Personal Defense Ammo
Replies: 122
Views: 24271

Re: Personal Defense Ammo

blackopstx wrote:.40 S&W 125gr. Barnes TAC-XP Lead Free 50rds-$67.47 a box....is the high cost because there using a barnes tac-xp? is it worth it?
Don't know that much about the ballistics on the Barnes TAC-XP bullets, but the company is well known and used by a LOT of manufacturers, so would think they must be pretty decent. I use Cor-Bon myself, but only DPX (XPB bullet) or Pow'rBall round.

And, TAC-XP bullets are close to a buck a piece for just the projectile, so yeah, that drives the price up on a finished round.
by Keith B
Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:17 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Personal Defense Ammo
Replies: 122
Views: 24271

Re: Personal Defense Ammo

CC Italian wrote:Keith- Barnes did just start selling loaded ammo but they JUST started this a few months ago and I don't think they have it for many calibers yet. Keith is right Corbon is the one to make this bullet famous! Here is a link to the new Barnes loaded ammo http://www.midwayusa.com/product/968681 ... -box-of-20

They also sell it in 44 mag and 45 LC it seems.

Opps. Thats the xPB not TAC.
Yeah, they have the xPB, but think they reserve their TAC-XP bullets for other manufactures or reloaders. And, I would almost bet that they don't manufacture their own ammunition, but it is loaded by another manufacturer and then branded as Barnes. :thumbs2:
by Keith B
Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:03 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Personal Defense Ammo
Replies: 122
Views: 24271

Re: Personal Defense Ammo

blackopstx wrote:what about BARNES BULLETS TAC-XP? Anyone used or heard about this stuff looks pretty impressive never messed with it myself....and no I don't sell Barnes either.
Better look closer. The Barnes TAC-XP is a BULLET only. The bullets are used in various ammunition like DoubleTap, Black Hills/Cor-BON and even Federal.
by Keith B
Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:46 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Personal Defense Ammo
Replies: 122
Views: 24271

Re: Personal Defense Ammo

Here's the skinny. No such thing as 'stopping power or knockdown power' when it comes to a bullet. And, depending on what school of theory you come from, there are different ideas on energy transfer, etc.

Bottom line, there are only 4 ways you will get someone to stop the aggression by shooting them: psychological (they give up when they are shot), physical incapacitation - (the bullet does damage to the portion of the body where they can no longer be the aggressor, like broken pelvis and can't walk or shot in arm and can't shoot), loss of blood (so much blood is lost that they pass out or die), or neurological (bullet strikes a portion of the central nervous system and it shuts down). Central nervous system hit is about the only immediate stop. Anything else may take a substantial time to occur and your attacker may be able to continue the aggression.

When it boils down to what is the best method to get one of these things accomplished, it becomes a combination of proper penetration and damage to the body.

Lightweight fragmentation (frangible) rounds (aka RBCD and Glaser, etc.) have been shown to NOT be conducive to proper penetration even though if they do penetrate they have the capability to spread out and maybe cut veins or vessels. They will not normally be able to go deep enough to hit vital organs and cause heavy hemorrhaging and/or punch a large enough hole for massive blood loss. Additionally, because of their inability to properly penetrate, heavy clothing like denim can actually keep the round from doing any damage. And the 'selling point' on low recoil is just due to a lighter projectile.

Heavier slower bullets have an advantage of continuing their trajectory for penetration without being deflected by clothing or bone. They also punch a nice sized hole to help alleviate the BG of his blood supply. However, they come with the downside of possible over penetration and being heavier to carry than a smaller caliber round.

So, sales hype aside, and trowing out the psychological abandonment of a bullet strike, it comes down to proper penetration, shot placement and a major dose of luck in stopping a person with a shot. If you are using the frag rounds, and they happen to hit in a soft tissue area with nothing to slow them down, then you may get lucky with the fragmentation and penetrate enough to hit an organ or hit the central nervous system. If you use a heavier bullet, then you may only poke one hole, but the penetration through clothing or through bone in the thoracic cavity should allow you to get to a vital organ (hopefully) and make a big outlet for blood.

For my use, I try to find a happy medium for my use and use something that will properly penetrate through clothing and bone, make a large drain hole and get into the vital organs to stop my attacker. Having personally seen what a 158 grain .357 hollow point, 12 gauge 00 buck and rifled slugs do to the human body from a shock and bleed-out standpoint, I will take the slow heavy round over the light fast round to make sure I get my penetration.
by Keith B
Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:45 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Personal Defense Ammo
Replies: 122
Views: 24271

Re: Personal Defense Ammo

blackopstx wrote:
AndyC wrote:
It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use.
Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - Special Agent Urey W. Patrick, FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit, Qunatico, VA

I'll hang onto my Golden Sabers for now.

Let's look at .40S&W round the FBI uses, if you're trying to stop a threat of the soft tissue kind, RBCD has in a 77grain bullet 2100fps/754flbs that will make a 9" wide wound channel 11" deep......compared to Remington's Golden Saber which is 1307fps/626flbs, I can't find what golden saber's wound channel claims.......So I can have a lighter round that shoots faster, and has more energy at point of impact and penetrates 11 inches deep 9 inches wide, and that is NOT "an effective bullet for LE use?" how many bad guys are going to survive that type of round? And if you really wanted to stay protected even against "Fat Albert the Burglar" use the 10mm rbcd which has 242-fps/1015 flbs and leaves a 12x12 thereby satisfying Special Agent Patrick's minimal penetration requirements......But again as I've been told and instructed to others shoot what you're comfortable with. But when your foot is on the line I want Tier1 ammo and this is it.
Blended Metal Technology privately funded research from LeMas is a major marketing hoopla. An independent study by a very renowned industry professional Dr. Gary K. Roberts (read his bio on page 2 of the presentation in the link for his name) proves the bullets were garbage. He states "nothing but lightweight, repackaged varmint bullets disguised with a black coating of moly, and driven to higher than normal velocities with concomitantly higher than normal pressures." Also, a USSOCOM (US Special Ops Command) and ARDEC (Army Research and Development and Engineering Center) study published in 2007 supported what he is stating here http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19888" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, all the sales hype and reports by paid 'experts' are not worth anything IMO. Until you can provide us with evidence of what your real world experience is, I will go with the findings of a wound and ballistics expert who had no skin in the game on this ammo.

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