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fagancarco wrote:I have seen the sign at only one Chilis. I didn't check to see if it was valid, just took my gun back to the car. Your advice is sound nevertheless,with one caveat.

Just as an old or improperly worded 30.06 makes it legal to carry in a establishment, a 51% sign improperly placed would do the same. I see no real difference. IMO

I'm open to correction if there's a legal opinion out there somewhere, or wording in the law I haven't seen.

Actually, no it does not. A 51% sign must match the license. In other words, if the liquor license does not say SIGN=RED, then the location is NOT a 51% location, sign or not. If the license says SIGN=BLUE and they have a 51% sign up, it carries the same weight as a gun-buster or other non-enforceable sign. The type of beverage sign that is to be posted is not at the discretion of the owner, but directed by TABC law.

In the case of a 30.06 sign, that is placed at the discretion of the owner of the property. So, if you see a 30.06 you must abide by it until you are told differently by the owner and given permission to pass that sign. A bar owner cannot give you permission to carry past a valid 51% sign.

fagancarco wrote:

JKTex wrote:

fagancarco wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

fagancarco wrote:Don't sweat it. Finish your meal.

If you weapon is as concealed as it should be, you won't have a problem. If it's not...better get out fast and be more careful next time.

Seriously?

I mean, seriously?

What is it, exactly that you object to?

Don't you agree that the carrier should have checked the signage more carefully before being seated, even though it was posted in the wrong place?

Or do you think he should jump up and run out when he's 20 minutes into his meal, even though the signs were posted in the wrong place? (I'm reading his post to say that the sign was not at the door.)

When I read it, it read as you implied ignore the law because it wasn't convenient, regardless. But I'll add this, if you walk into a restaurant that happens to sell booze, or even has a small bar.........

I apologize for not making my meaning clear. A bar is no place for a gun but many "family" restaurants now have bars, like Chili's and Applebees.

Most patrons to those places would not know if they were 51%ers or not. The signs need to be up and in the proper place.

A Chili's or Applebee's will not be a 51% location.

As for signage, and it being visible, proper location or not, once you have seen the sign you have been notified. It is now your responsibility to ascertain if it is valid or not. At the time you are notified and if you are unsure, then you need to make every effort to leave the premise in the most expedient manner possible. For example, if in the middle of my meal, and possible to excuse myself and take the gun back to the car I would. If no one else with me, I would summon the server and request my check, quickly finish my meal and leave as fast as possible once I have settled the bill.

Bottom line, I know of very few locations that I would not know were 51% before entering. My suspicion is the location was improperly posted with a 51% sign. If I am at a location that doesn't seem to be 51% and I am relatively sure it is not, but they have the sign posted, then I would make every effort to take my gun back to the car, then reenter and look for their license and validate the signage. If it is valid, then I would not go back carrying. If it is not valid, then I would inform Management of their error. If they don't remove the sign, then contact the local TABC office and ask them to have the business properly post the locale.

Llanero wrote:

johnson0317 wrote:It sounded like one of those "wrong color sign" scenarios. I guess you could look at it a couple of different ways (if the sign had been correct). One was that you could have gone directly out to your car and left your gun there...probably what I would have done. The second is that you had already broken the law, so why not just wait for your food, which is what you did. If it had been a true red 51%, then I guess you can't break it just a little bit, it is broken. Your way of handling it seems as good as any except for it raises the odds you will be caught out. I am not dinging you one way or the other...you made a decision and it worked out. Then you had the good sense to check it out with TABC.

RJ

I made a mistake, I should have gone to the car immediately as soon as I saw the sign. I won't make that mistake again.

If you are unsure that the sign posted is correct or not, then yes, the best thing to do is a 180 and get out. That way you left as soon as you got the notice (saw the sign.)

BUT, if you are sure the sign posted is not correct, then you are not breaking the law if you stay. The presence of a 51% sign doesn't automatically make the place off-limits, it is the official license and RED or BLUE that determines that.

And, again, I will bet there are very few places that have a bar area only that is 51%. If so, you can't leave that area with the drinks. If you can go out into the rest of the building, then the whole building is 51% if the license says SIGN=RED.

If the business is legitimately 51%, then 99.9% of the time the whole location (address/building they occupy) where they serve alcohol would be off limits.

Example: Chuy's bar makes the drinks and they are served out in the restaurant under the same license, so if they truly were 51%, then the whole place is off limits. In the case of Chuy's, they have an incorrect sign posted if they are showing 51%.

The only exception to this would be if the bar was owned separately from the rest of the location, and they were truly 51%. However, I don't believe you would be able to take the drinks out of the designated area at that point.

I can tell you, unless it looks and smells like a BAR only, then I will bet you they had the wrong sign posted.