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by Keith B
Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:12 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Shot Fired
Replies: 82
Views: 11719

Re: Shot Fired

gemini wrote:I'll try to answer or comment on several things instead of trying to respond to each post.

Keith B: I agree. It will be more trouble, time and expense. However, I have thought long and hard
about when, where and under what circumstances I am willing to commit to pulling my weapon and
not hesitating to use it. I believe if you have a CHL, each and every person needs to think those
issues out, BEFORE carrying a weapon.In no way do I want my original post to appear flippant or that it was a spare of the
moment decision. It's what I was personally willing to "go to the mat" for. The decision was made
along time ago. Others may have different scenarios or levels of violation before they are willing to react.

Sawdust: Thank you Sir.

gigag04: No. I simply restated exactly what I told the 911 operator. Scenario and description of BG.
After crime scene finished with the car, a list of stolen items. The responding LEO's were pro citizen.
IF I had shot and hit, I would have still called 911 and said the same things, but I would refuse to be
interviewed, either at the scene or later, without my atty present.
I have a very good lawyer. Board Certified Criminal Defense atty that actually was the one that helped me year
before last to put pressure on the State Fair of Texas (different thread). Former felony prosecutor, pro 2nd A.
We have discussed in detail exactly what to say, not to say, under dire circumstances. Basically to shut up.
Gemini,

Please don't think I am saying you were in the wrong. From what you have stated in your posts you reacted appropriately IMO. And, I also feel you have the right mindset on where your lines are drawn and what you need to do to defend yourself or others. I just wanted others to understand how your situation could have played out with a MUCH different outcome had you actually hit the guy. :tiphat:
by Keith B
Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:37 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Shot Fired
Replies: 82
Views: 11719

Re: Shot Fired

baldeagle wrote:While Keith's point is well taken, I want to point out that Texas law is pretty clear in this area. I have highlighted the sections that I believe are apropos in the OP's situation.
SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
The OP was justified in using force and he was in fresh pursuit. If he reasonably believed that there would be no other way to recover the property or the use of force other than deadly force would expose him or his son, he was justified in using deadly force. I personally do not believe that if this situation was questionable the police would have acted as they did simply because he missed rather than hit the suspect. Deadly force is deadly force whether it results in injury or not.

As Keith points out, it can depend on the district attorney as to whether or not charges are brought, but the OP has, in my opinion, a very winnable case, if he were to be charged. So, while he could be exposed to the expense of defending himself, I doubt seriously he would be found guilty of anything, if tried, and I would be surprised if the DA really wanted to pursue the case.
I don't disagree with you, but trust me, if you shoot someone you WILL require an attorney; good shoot or not. And that attorney will NOT be free. Also, there is gonna be a LOT more paperwork for the LEO's, and they will make sure you are involved in their filling out that paperwork. There will also be other LEO's and individuals that will have to talk to you and fill out paperwork, so you will be tied up quite a bit with the investigation.

So, while yes the law is the law and you should end up no billed if you were defending yourself, my point is just that the few inches difference will make a big difference in time, money and stress levels.
by Keith B
Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:21 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Shot Fired
Replies: 82
Views: 11719

Re: Shot Fired

Glad it worked out for you in this case. IMO you were well within your rights to shoot when he turned back and you felt threatened. And, since you missed there was nothing other than a scared bad guy to say you shot at him after he was breaking into your car, the police had info to what had gone down and you got to sleep in your own bed.

Now, had you actually shot and killed the guy, this would have thrown a whole new scenario into the mix. You now would more than likely be taken into custody, the weapon confiscated, and you would be requiring a lawyer and a lot of time during the post shooting investigation. Then, if the DA decides the shooting isn't as clear cut as it should be, due to only one side of story being able to be told, you might be charged. At minimum they would still refer it to a Grand Jury to hopefully get no-billed.

So, just remember that a few inches of difference in bullet trajectory can cost you a ton of time, money and emotional stress until you are cleared.

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