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by Keith B
Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:09 pm
Forum: New to CHL?
Topic: Pulling weapon to diffuse a road rage scenario?
Replies: 99
Views: 12659

Re: Pulling weapon to diffuse a road rage scenario?

OK folks. This has gone far enough and moving toward personal attacks. Tone it down and discuss civilly or it WILL be locked.
by Keith B
Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:56 pm
Forum: New to CHL?
Topic: Pulling weapon to diffuse a road rage scenario?
Replies: 99
Views: 12659

Re: Pulling weapon to diffuse a road rage scenario?

JayCee wrote:See, here's where it's nice to get the benefit of the doubt.

Both of these situations were so fast-paced that pulling over or taking an exit simply weren't possible. On top of that driving (a manual transmission) in traffic at high speed while trying to call 911 (only to be transferred 3-4 times until the appropriate dispatch is reached) seemed more dangerous than simply placing a piece of metal on the seat next to me.

It's very easy to say "pull over call 911" after the fact when you're removed from the situation, but when in the heat of the moment and you're afraid for your and your loved one's lives I'm going to make the deciscion that has the best outcome for me and my family, regardless of the law.
I'd like to know that I wouldn't spend the rest of my life in jail for shooting someone while protecting my family. For the record I would shoot to disable the vehicle if this ever happened again. Obviously killing the driver can cause a bigger problem.

Full Disclosure for those that didn't read my "intro" post: I don't currently have a CHL so I'm not familiar with the law 100%. I'm just trying to get as much info from the experts here as I can.
Well, here are the other issues: Shooting into a vehicle to 'disable it' is pretty well a myth. Very rarely will it work, and more than likely you will end up hurting or killing someone else. And, instead of the murder charge, you just get to spend less time on an assault with a deadly weapon charge.

If you can't pull over, as I said before, just drive normally. By aggressively driving, you are just helping fuel the other person's anger and making them more determined 'to not let you get away'. If there is no chase, then they will usually cool down. If they start literally ramming your vehicle or trying to force you off the road, THEN you can protect yourself, but not before.

Not sure where and who you are taking your CHL class from, but they should cover these types of scenarios and what you should and shouldn't be doing. Bottom line, the pistol being pulled is a LAST defense and only if your life is TRULY in danger, not a perceived threat.
by Keith B
Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:30 pm
Forum: New to CHL?
Topic: Pulling weapon to diffuse a road rage scenario?
Replies: 99
Views: 12659

Re: Pulling weapon to diffuse a road rage scenario?

JayCee wrote:Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone has had to do the above.

I've had 3 or so situations in the past couple of years where I was randomly "attacked" while driving, I'm wondering how justified (if at all) I would be in drawing a weapon to diffuse these situations.

On one particular occasion I was leaving work and attempting to merge on the Hwy but there was an orange Avalanche that was halfway in the right lane and the merge/exit lane. I gave him a few seconds to either exit or enter the hwy but he stayed there for several seconds and was unaware or too intoxicated to tell what was going on. Well, I had to get on so he needed to move. I honked at him in case he didn't realize what he was doing at which point he swerved at me, looking me dead in the eye. I dropped a gear and sped up (sports car vs truck, duh) to get around him and he began to chase me, tailgating me even as I changed lanes and tried to evade. I could have layed on the gas and lost him eventually but that would have been dangerous for me and other drivers, so since he was so close he could probably read my radio station, I pulled my pistol from the console, cocked it and layed it on the seat in clear view. Fortunately that made him reconsider his course of action and he immediately backed off 10 car lengths.
Now I know and feel that I did the right thing since calling 911 while trying to evade some crazy redneck would have put me at greater risk (and accomplished nothing) than simply displaying the fact that I can make this altercation a lot more serious than some bumpkin with a grudge is willing to take it. The question is, was I right in the eyes of the law?

Another time I was driving with my fiancee and out of nowhere a car passes me on the shoulder doing at least 90 (I drive around 10 over and don't loiter in the left lane, FYI), cuts me off and brake checks me. The car is driven by a big black man and has TVs in the visors; so not to stereo type, but this guy was either gang affiliated or wants people to think he is. I try to avoid him, change lanes and sure enough as soon as he gets a chance he's in front of me again, stomping on his brakes. It's night time but traffic is moving at decent speed but is so thick that theres not a lot of room to manuver so basically we're stuck with a guy in close proximity that apparently wants to cause an accident or worse. At several points the other car was beside us and I had no way of knowing if I or my fiancee were going to be shot in the face. I wasn't carrying my pistol that night (and regretted it ever since). My question is: if I was carrying and those events transpired, would I be justified in shooting the other driver car-to-car? Let me reiterate: there was no backing down or running away given the traffic.
Is it justifable to use a weapon to preempt assault?

...and for all those that might be led to believe that I somehow caused these events with either bad or aggressive driving, just let it go. I'm a very safe and considerate, mature driver and have the record to show for it!
Not flaming here, but the choice you made in the first scenario was totally a bad one. Calling 911 is the FIRST thing you do. Your best bet is to stay in your car, and drive normally. If possible, you should pull into an area where there are plenty of witnesses and let them decide if they want to abandon their aggressiveness or continue. If they get out of their vehicle and head at yours, unless they have something in their hand to be able to gain entry to your car or to harm you in some way, then they will NOT be able to hurt you through a rolled-up window. If they do try to force entry into your car, THEN you can prepare to use force if necessary to stop the threat.

And on the second scenario, NO, you would not be justified.

Again, not flaming here, and not sure if you have your CHL, but I feel your posts indicate you may need to review the rules and laws on the threat and use of deadly force. Carrying a pistol for defense is a VERY serious matter and must be treated as such, and knowing the rules of when to use it and when to not use it, as well as situation deescalation techniques is imperative..

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