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by Flightmare
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:00 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?
Replies: 123
Views: 234680

Re: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?

cyphertext wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:09 am
K.Mooneyham wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:13 am The "big ugly signs" allow property owners to retain their rights, and those same signs function to keep those carrying out of trouble (as long as the signs are heeded).
So I guess this is where we disagree... I look at this very simply. Again, I know what the law states, this is just my opinion...

LTC (legal hoops to carry) = 30.06 /30.07 sign required(legal hoops to deny) The equation is balanced. Both sides are complying with extra measures imposed by regulation. You took a state required class to understand all the signs and what they mean, and businesses post those legal signs that you were taught to look for.

Unlicensed carry (no legal hoops) = 30.05 sign required (legal hoops to deny) This is not balanced. Unlicensed carriers don't take training and may not even know to look for signs barring their entry. So something prominently posted, in plain everyday language makes more sense to me. Something that someone would know what is meant by it by just seeing it, not stopping to read in detail. The circle slash gun buster sign is clear... people have understood pictographs since the dawn of time (think cave drawings). No English and Spanish needed.

One only has to visit OCT Facebook page to see that many gunowners in general do not understand the laws. And new carriers are turning to groups like that for information, not the actual law. People over there are arguing that the signs at HEB are not legal because they are not "contrasting colors" and hard to see... yet they were easy enough to see to argue about, as well as take pictures. Even with proper signage, folks are looking for a loophole.
One counter to your argument about the gun buster signs is the statutorily stated 30.05 signs actually indicate the specific section of the penal code that outlines the trespass law regarding unlicensed carry. People from other states may see a gun-buster sign and interpret that to mean how it does in their own state. In many states, it has no force of law. In some, it does. It would potentially also cause confusion when an uninformed and unlicensed individual sees a licensed individual carry past a sign, not knowing that the person had a license and the gun-buster only applied to unlicensed as opposed to ALL carry. By having the appropriate PC reference and language that specifically states "unlicensed" carry, as opposed to an arguably ambiguous gunbuster pictograph, it makes it easier to understand specifically what is being asked of patrons entering.

While I do not agree with a business' decision to post compliant signage, I appreciate being able to see that from a distance. If the location is a place I need to go, the last thing I want is to have to turn around and store my firearm in my vehicle. Criminals are often looking for opportunities to get their hands on weapons. A person walking up to a building, only to turn around to their vehicle and put something inside makes it fairly obvious what was being stored there.
by Flightmare
Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:14 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?
Replies: 123
Views: 234680

Re: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?

cyphertext wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:06 pm *snip*
Window space at a business is often used for advertising. Requiring yet another big sign, in two languages for a business to prohibit unlicensed carry is overkill. Even if they don't use the space for advertising, it makes it unattractive and uninviting.
*snip*
I will agree that those signs make it unattractive and uninviting.
30.07 has the legal effect of uninviting anyone open carrying under the authority of LTC.
30.06 has the legal effect of uninviting anyone conceal carrying under the authority of LTC.
The new 30.05 signage has the legal effect of uninviting anyone who is carrying and not under the authority of LTC.

The signs by their very purpose are uninviting.
by Flightmare
Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:47 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?
Replies: 123
Views: 234680

Re: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?

Again, does a circle/slash with a pistol imply notice given to JUST unlicensed? or are you suggesting that it applies to licensed and unlicensed? Without the "identical or substantially similar language", it is vague and arguably impossible to discern the difference. Hence the specific language requirement in HB 1927.
by Flightmare
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:32 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?
Replies: 123
Views: 234680

Re: Anyone Seen a 3005 Sign?

ScottDLS wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:43 pm The Code TXPC 30.05 requires a person to receive notice that their entry (with a handgun) is prohibited to be guilty of trespass. HB 1927 adds a mechanism that may be used specifically to communicate this via a sign. A cartoon frowny face in crayon next to a pictograph of a Beretta style squirt gun...doesn't seem to make it clear that a person's entry to a location normally open to the public is prohibited (presumably by virtue of them carrying a firearm).
Not only that, but that said pictograph ONLY applied to unlicensed carry. I agree that a pictograph is too vague to convey the correct meaning. In my non-lawyer opinion, it is not "language that is identical to or substantially similar" to wording in HB 1927.

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