TexasCHLforum.com

GrillKing wrote:I guess the legislature did specifically regulate the carrying of firearms on prison grounds. Thanks KBCraig!!

Wait, not so quick!

As someone else quickly pointed out, this is "administrative code", meaning it's policy with the weight of law. It's exactly like CFR (Code of Federal Regulations); it's not law, exactly, but there's little you can do about it.

I threw the TAC cite in as a little head-twister, because too often we rely on TPC, or sometimes TGC. This particular code predates the revision to PC 30.06:
"Source Note: The provisions of this §151.21 adopted to be effective April 8, 1996, 21 TexReg 2476; amended to be effective February 5, 2004, 29 TexReg 1212"

And so, we're back to this: TAC §151.21 might be partially invalidated by current law, but the fact remains that a TDC facility (including the grounds) is not open to the public, and you're not getting in without complying with their rules.

It's just like the endless debates we've had about the (posted, but city-owned) American Airlines Center: you're not in violation of the law if you carry there (except according to Frankie ), but if they catch you up front, there's little you can do to force them to let you in.

Title 37 of the Texas Administrative Code:

RULE §151.21 Weapons Policy

(a) Policy.

(1) The Texas Department of Criminal Justice (TDCJ) requires that all persons carrying a firearm shall unload and safely secure the firearm prior to entering a TDCJ correctional facility. For purposes of visiting a TDCJ correctional facility, a peace officer, a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or a person who is otherwise authorized to carry a deadly weapon shall unload and secure the weapon(s) in the locked trunk of a vehicle, or a locked compartment of a vehicle if the vehicle does not have a trunk, immediately upon parking or while stopped at the first security checkpoint, whichever occurs first. A peace officer may also store his weapon in any other TDCJ authorized location prior to entering the perimeter fence.


More here.

GrillKing wrote:

Starvin wrote:While a warden cannot take away from the rules, he can and will enhance them to suit his respective unit on an "as needed" basis.

By 'enhancing' the rules, the warden is taking away. He does not have the legal authority to do so.

The warden has the legal authority to deny entrance to anyone. The prison (including grounds) are not open to the public, despite being public property. Visitors can only enter with specific permission, and if they can only get that permission by unloading, emptying magazines, and locking the gun away, then that's what they'll have to do if they want to enter. It's not a 30.06 issue.

Prisons can (and do) deny entrance for all sorts of arbitrary reasons that don't seem to make much sense.

That said, I think securing the gun in the locked vehicle is sufficient, and the extra precautions of emptying magazines, etc., is just silly. Not to mention, more likely to result in an AD.

Right2Carry wrote:Their shouldn't be any inmates around the parking area anyway, right?

While that seems to be the common sense answer, we're talking TDC, where lifers go out on gate passes to work the field crew.

GrillKing wrote:Plus some people I would think would have a legal right to visit an inmate (lawyer) that cannot be denied like a it could be with friends or family.

Lawyers don't have a "legal right to visit" clients in prison. I have seen lawyers denied visits, and I've seen legal visits terminated.

I can't find the reference now, but someone who works for TDC posted (either here, or on another gun forum) the TDC policy that allows employees to have personal firearms in personal or government vehicles, even when traveling on official business.

Anyone recall that?

stevie_d_64 wrote:I don't have to worry about it anymore, but this was an issue (I kinda struggled with) when I was visiting someone in the Beaumont Federal facility...

I would have liked to, and would have provided sufficient, secure storage in my vehicle, but when you fill out the visitation form, they ask you directly what you are driving and if you have in your possession any of the "prohibited" items on their list...

At the point you were filling out the "Notification to Visitors" form in the front lobby, anything you had left in your car was not in your possession.

For anyone else who might visit a federal prison, remember: you can never be forced to submit to a search. You can be denied entrance and required to leave, but you're always free to decline to be searched. Same goes for your car in the parking lot.

We're LEOs with arrest authority. We can't search non-inmates against their will without warrant any more than a cop on the street can.

Kevin

jbirds1210 wrote:Kevin will have to tell us about the restrictions of Federal prison housing if any exist.
Jason

Most federal prisons don't have any staff housing. The older ones (like Texarkana) usually have a limited number of staff houses. The Warden, Captain, and other executives were required to live on the reservation at one time, but not for many years now. So, whatever housing there is, is available first come, first serve. Residents have to sign a rental contract with a "no guns" provision, and storage is available in the Armory.

As for anyone else, it's not against the law to bring a gun onto the grounds, although the BOP has tried to pretend for years that it is. It's against policy, but not against the law, so long as you're outside the secure perimeter and outside any "federal facilities" (buildings). When LEOSA passed, we tried to negotiate storage for staff personal firearms, but we've been met with solid resistance so far.

The BOP did propose a Rule to "codify" this policy into the CFR (which has the weight of law), after we proved to them that firearms on the grounds were not illegal. We caught wind of it in the Federal Register, and bombarded them during the "public comment" period. More than six months after the comment period ending, the proposed Rule still hasn't been mentioned as either affirmed, or rejected.

Kevin