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Kalrog wrote:I think my problem with this is I see a tazer as a nice option prior to pulling the handgun. If you can't pull the handgun, then you probably shouldn't be pulling the tazer either.

Exactly. I see a taser as the "shoot 'em in the leg" option. The likelihood of death is much lower than shooting COM, but there is a risk of serious injury or death.

I think the risk with the taser is that while it is use of force, it's force that requires no effort on the part of the user. It's stand-off force with almost no risk to the user. The risk of abuse is high. And most dangerous of all is the "it's just a taser" mentality that can lead to inappropriate use, or over-use.

Kevin

TraCoun wrote: I don't claim to know anything about the tazer business, and those who have talked about getting her to comply have made good arguments. But 4 more means a total of 5. 4 while she was on the floor (or ground, whichever), not fighting back. Would this part be a bit on the excessive side?

Not according to Chris. She broke the law and defied the cop. By golly, she's going to jail!

Kevin

Chris wrote:

KBCraig wrote:
Just for the record, I'm in a similar line of work. When I write someone up and he doesn't wish to comply, the stakes are a bit higher: by "losing", we could lose control of a unit, or an entire institution.

street work and jail assignments aren't even a close comparison. i've done both. the approach to problems are handled entirely different. if i had the peace of mind to know that person was not armed, i'd have no problem waiting a while. a lot of dead cops who made that mistake.

You think I have any such peace of mind?

LMFAO!

txinvestigator wrote:If Grandma refuses to sign, even after being threatened with jail, what makes you think she will submit later? What difference does it make if the officer knows who she is or where she lives?

Do you honestly mean to tell me that in your years of law enforcement experience, you never saw people with elevated, irrational emotions, who would later calm down after the situation de-escalated? Or who wouldn't respond better to a different officer, or a family member?

There are always choices. And using force to remove an elderly lady from her car over a Class C traffic misdemeanor seems like a poor choice.

Kevin

Chris wrote:

graysoncountyffl wrote:

i forcibly removed and arrested a 68 y/o "grandma" from her vehicle when she refused to sign her citation.

I am not sure that Jefferson, Washington and others had that in mind.

choices. they had choices in mind. she consequently made a bad one.

Let's talk about choices.

You knew her name. Her DL number. Her address. You knew where to find her. She was irate over getting a ticket, and refused to sign.

You had no choice except to forcibly remove her from her car and take her into custody?

Just for the record, I'm in a similar line of work. When I write someone up and he doesn't wish to comply, the stakes are a bit higher: by "losing", we could lose control of a unit, or an entire institution.

But you know what? There is such a thing as "deferred settlement". We can hunt the offender down and settle things when he's not not showing off for his boys. We know where he lives. And we'll take care of it quietly, without resistance, just by removing the "arrest" from the emotion of the original incident. I'm just a stupid ol' CO, but to me it makes sense to take two (other) officers by the offender's house later, and talking a little calm sense to the miscreant, rather than pushing the issue and winding up fighting 1,800 against 20.

I guess I'm a little old-fashioned that way. I prefer to let people decide to willingly go to jail, instead of asserting my AU-THOR-I-TAY!

I can't imagine a situation that requires forcibly arresting a 68 year old woman for a (sober) traffic violation, unless "contempt of cop" has become an arrestable offense.

Choices: we all have them. Who made a bad one?

Kevin