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airbornecpa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:06 pm Crud, more drama but it is all on the civil side. Another interaction with the same deputy last night, when I saw him I handed my DL and LTC to him without being asked. We both had a short chuckle. Drama from last night has subsided, still all on the civil side, son saw a lawyer today and is feeling a little better about his situation.

Stay well.

Having gone through the process myself, I can tell you that I'm really happy I moved from Washington state to Texas before we got a divorce. I had to give up ALOT, but I definitely made out much better than my 2 brothers who got divorced in Washington.

striker55 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:21 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:56 pm

striker55 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:48 pm Because I carry every time I go out of my house I volunteer my LTC whenever I'm asked for ID. Every time the officer says it's not needed.

As a practical matter, I do the same, and have the same result. That also covers me in case I happen to forget that I left my range bag in the back of my SUV, etc. Of course nowadays who can afford to actually use any ammo, lol.

The closest I have come to a judgement call was when I was rear ended shortly after getting my CHL. We pulled into an empty lot and the police were called. When the officer arrived, I was standing outside of my vehicle, and I had purposely left my gun in the center console, inside the car. The officer and I stepped away so she could get my statement, and she started by asking for my ID. I gave her both just to be safe, but I was probably not "carrying" since the gun was a good 20+ feet away inside of a locked car. It was a moot point since she just said she didn't need it and never even asked if I was armed.

I was rear ended at a traffic light, I got out of my car and told the girl to go into a parking lot to exchange info. She took off, I chased her for about a mile, she pulled into a gas station to hide behind some bushes. I pulled in behind her and blocked her from leaving, called 911. When deputy sheriff arrived I showed him my DL and CHL. He said that's fine and gave me the CHL back. She was driving on a suspended license and no insurance, because she was young and cute she was let go with some tickets, her boyfriend picked her up.

It's a felony in some states to leave the scene of an accident if the other party is "injured". I have specific knowledge of Florida on this point (relative was involved). Net-net, if she only got tickets, she got VERY lucky.

I try to grill into my kids that the initial mistake isn't what matters in the end. It's what you do NEXT after that mistake that really matters.

striker55 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:48 pm Because I carry every time I go out of my house I volunteer my LTC whenever I'm asked for ID. Every time the officer says it's not needed.

As a practical matter, I do the same, and have the same result. That also covers me in case I happen to forget that I left my range bag in the back of my SUV, etc. Of course nowadays who can afford to actually use any ammo, lol.

The closest I have come to a judgement call was when I was rear ended shortly after getting my CHL. We pulled into an empty lot and the police were called. When the officer arrived, I was standing outside of my vehicle, and I had purposely left my gun in the center console, inside the car. The officer and I stepped away so she could get my statement, and she started by asking for my ID. I gave her both just to be safe, but I was probably not "carrying" since the gun was a good 20+ feet away inside of a locked car. It was a moot point since she just said she didn't need it and never even asked if I was armed.

labrat1001001 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:15 pm "Look at the recent jogger incident in San Antonio. In the long run, I am not sure i would say the jogger won. He was arrested and spent at least one night in jail. Yes, the case was dismissed by the DA refusing the charges. But he still spent time in jail and will have an arrest record (unless he pays a lawyer to get it expunged)."


"You may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride"

I'm not familiar with the jogger incident you reference, but in general I am not a huge fan of restricting your actions and/or giving up rights in order to avoid being arrested when you have not committed a crime. After all, you can be arrested for anything. To is no way to ensure that you "beat the ride" as long as you are alive.

I do know that there are many cases where civil damages come as a result of being arrested without sufficient evidence of a crime having been committed. In this case, if the LEO had decided to arrest the OP (for not showing his LTC), then the LEO would be arresting him for doing something that isn't even illegal. Kind of like getting arrested for wearing a white shirt. Seems like that would be a pretty straightforward case and would just come down to proving damages. Then again, IANAL.

Edited to add. I just read a story on the San Antonio jogger situation and saw the video of his arrest. I think that case is a bit different since he was clearly being arrested, at least by the time the video started to roll. As a result, he had a legal duty to provide ID. There is a separate question of whether the officers had sufficient cause to make the arrest. I think that will be the key focus for that case, so again, a bit different than the situation in the OP.

airbornecpa wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:15 pm Something I have wondered about but never had happen to me until tonight, note I was NOT carrying:

I was acting as an intermediary on a return of property for my son's his future ex to return property and cash. She asked that I meet her at a neutral location for her to transfer said items to me. asked that I meet her at a neutral location with She moved the day before. I'd been waiting for a while when my truck was lit up by blue and red flashing lights. My initial thought was that someone had called me in for being "suspicious". That wasn't the case, she called the the Sheriff's office for a civil stand by. I thought okay, no big deal. Deputy asked me if I knew a "son's name" and who his wife was. I identified that I knew my son and provided daughter-in law's name. He asked for my driver's license, I declined as this was a "voluntary" interaction and I was free to go, but he said that if I did not provide my drivers license that he would tell daughter in law not to come. Reluctantly I showed him my driver's license while maintaining possession, he then proceeded to call in a license check I withdrew my driver's license and he then recited its number to dispatch. During the course of all this I asked if I was being detained or was I free to go, I was free to go. He went back to his car but another officer (different uniform) was standing by my passenger window. I pulled forward about 10 yards as I did not feel like being stared at.

I bolded the part of the OP that is relevant to the officers request for his identification. Given this fact pattern, where the officer asks for ID, the OP essentially says "do I have to give it to you" and the LEO responds with "no, but if you don't then I won't do XYZ", I don't know that this meets the common English language definition of a "demand". It sounds alot more like a "Request", or possibly a "conditional demand" where the LEO is telling you that you need to do something in order to have him do something else. Then again, IANAL.