Search found 6 matches

by Soccerdad1995
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:10 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident
Replies: 23
Views: 6494

Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

pbwalker wrote:
tool4daman wrote:I don’t wonder why he was charged. I used to live in Minnesota. The twin cities and Rochester are as liberal as they come. In fact, the Hennepin County sheriff (city of Minneapolis) at one time was refusing to issue CHLs at one time.
Just about to pipe in with the same. I spent 7 years in Duluth (mid-90's to early 2000's) and this guy is stuck either way. The DFL has destroyed that state, yet the most affected folks on the Iron Range continue to vote for them.
I spent a good chunk of my life in the Seattle area, so I can commiserate to some extent. It really is a different mindset in some parts of this country. Even more so in neighboring countries like California, New York, etc.

To paraphrase Jack Nicolson's character from As Good As It Gets, "It's easy to understand liberals. Just picture a normal person, then remove all logic and common sense."
by Soccerdad1995
Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:50 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident
Replies: 23
Views: 6494

Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

BBYC wrote:Quotes from the Star Tribune in the Twin Cities that didn't make the NY news for some reason.
The passenger said he and Rahim yelled at Weiss and threatened to fight him. The passenger said Rahim got very close to Weiss, but that neither he nor Rahim touched Weiss.
Weiss said Rahim responded, "That's not even a real gun," and spat at Weiss. Weiss said Rahim then reached for the gun
Weiss called police after the shooting.
The second that the aggressor reached for the gun, he introduced a real risk of death on the part of the LTC'er, IMHO. I continue to wonder why this guy was charged. Does the police captain tell his officers to not fire even when they are facing two aggressors, and one of them reaches for his drawn gun?
by Soccerdad1995
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:02 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident
Replies: 23
Views: 6494

Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Pariah3j wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
montgomery wrote:
... Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”
Everyone knows that self defense applies as a legal defense only on double dog dares.
Excellent point.
the double dog dare made me chuckle :lol:

But in all seriousness, think someone says "I dare you!" while backing up or walking away? My guess is he did that while puffing up his chest and getting closer. Someone does that to me when I already feel threatened enough to pull a gun and point it at them, and I believe my trigger finger is going to start getting itchy. The situation would ultimately decide on the outcome, but I could see where that was justifiably perceived as a threat.
I'm picturing the LTC'er standing there with a drawn gun facing an aggressor who is very close to him. If that were me*, my focus would be on the other guy's hands, not his words. To me, this is much like the situations we have seen with LEO shootings of unarmed folks. We can infer from the friend's statements that the aggressor was not backing away after seeing the gun. To me, that would be a huge red flag that I might be dealing with someone who is either high or mentally unstable. We also know that the aggressor was attempting to escalate the situation by using words that are designed to provoke a reaction. If the aggressor moved his hand toward the gun, even slightly, a reasonable person would likely conclude that this aggressive, and likely unstable, person was trying to grab the gun. Once he gets a hold of it, he and his friend could easily overpower and then murder their victim.

If this goes in front of the same type of grand jury that has heard recent cases of officer involved shootings across the country, then this is an easy no bill.

*note that I would like to think I would have handled this differently prior to this point, and would not draw a gun against someone at bad breath distance unless I was going to immediately fire in fear for my life.
by Soccerdad1995
Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:53 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident
Replies: 23
Views: 6494

Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Jusme wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:There's a (very) little bit more information here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3759085

One thing that tells me there might be more to the situation:
The slain teen’s passenger claims he watched his pal, Muhammed Rahim, 17, confront an armed man itching for a fight after their two vehicles crashed Sunday morning in Rochester.

"My friend got in his face, and then the guy we hit pulled a gun out,” Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”
So, it appears the "victim" may have initially been the aggressor. On the flip side, the mug shot of the shooter does not inspire confidence.
What's wrong with guy's mug shot? I don't see any tattoos. He has short hair. Looks like a normal guy to me.

:iagree:

This occurred in Minnesota, very cold outside. Shooter probably had on winter headwear, which was removed for the photo. It's hard to comb your hair while wearing handcuffs. Add the stress of having to use a gun in a SD situation, immediately following a traffic accident, then being arrested. My mug shot would, more than likely, not make the cover of GQ.
If I had to randomly guess at the shooter's occupation based solely on the picture, I would probably say either LEO or military.
by Soccerdad1995
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:09 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident
Replies: 23
Views: 6494

Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

Pawpaw wrote:There's a (very) little bit more information here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.3759085

One thing that tells me there might be more to the situation:
The slain teen’s passenger claims he watched his pal, Muhammed Rahim, 17, confront an armed man itching for a fight after their two vehicles crashed Sunday morning in Rochester.

"My friend got in his face, and then the guy we hit pulled a gun out,” Noah Dukart told KTTC-TV. “Then my friend said, ‘I dare you,’ and he shot him right in the heart.”
So, it appears the "victim" may have initially been the aggressor. On the flip side, the mug shot of the shooter does not inspire confidence.
What's wrong with guy's mug shot? I don't see any tattoos. He has short hair. Looks like a normal guy to me.
by Soccerdad1995
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:07 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident
Replies: 23
Views: 6494

Re: Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident

stroo wrote:A punch doesn't need to be thrown to justify acting in self defense.

However from the pictures, I don't see a disparity of force argument working. And simply daring someone to shoot doesn't justify shooting.

It will be interesting to see how this works out.
The passenger was close enough to hear what the two men were saying. That means he was out of his vehicle. Two against one, where the assailants are clearly willing to press the attack despite the presence of a gun? I dunno. Sounds like it might be a disparity of force to me. Once the two attackers manage to knock their victim down and disarm him, he is done. It is way too late for him to defend himself at that point.

I would ask the police captain whether one of his officers would be justified in shooting when confronted with two aggressive men who were "getting in the officers face" and refusing to back down even after the officer drew his weapon. If he charges this LTCer, how would he justify not charging one of his officers in the same situation? Or does he require his officers to first take a punch before they can fire? I hope that's not the case.

Return to “Minnesota LTCer Shoots Motorist After Car Accident”