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loktite wrote:Ok, but lets go back to 38.02 (b) for a second.. please clarify for me..

Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) lawfully arrested the person;

(2) lawfully detained the person; or

(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.

(b).(3) is fictitious info for a witness. It does not state that a refusal to give info is an offense for a witness.

RPBrown wrote:Going to turn the table for a second.
Driver is pulled over for any infraction. Officer comes up and says I'm Officer LEO from Noname Police Department. The reason for the stop is you failed to do whatever. Are there and weapons in the car?

Now, said driver is unaware that you as a passenger has a LTC much less has a gun on your person and answers no. Officer LEO asks driver if he can search the vehicle and he answers sure, I've got nothing to hide. He proceeds to pull everyone out of the vehicle and in doing so, sees your gun which you are lawfully OCing. Now, he did not ask you for ID nor did he ask anyone else if there were weapons in the vehicle. So now, lets for grins say he is a rookie and has you at gun point for having a weapon and not letting you speak because he is trying to get back up there because there is a MWAG.
Do you:
(A) keep trying to tell him you have a LTC
(B) wait until his back up arrives and hope the rookie doesn't get too nervous
(C) Just let it play out until someone finally asks for ID

Or, do you inform the LEO at the time of the initial question that you have a LTC and are lawfully carrying?

I could see this happening and going wrong in so many ways

labrat1001001 wrote:

BBYC wrote:

labrat1001001 wrote:I believe the below statements to be true. If not, please educate me.

a) If you are contacted by a LEO as a vehicle passenger and are carrying a handgun (with a valid Texas handgun license), whether it is concealed or openly carried, you do not, by law, have to produce your driver’s license or Texas handgun license unless you are suspected of a crime.

b) If you are contacting by a LEO while walking down the street, in a coffee shop, etc. and are carrying a handgun (with a valid Texas handgun license), whether it is concealed or openly carried, you do not, by law, have to produce your driver’s license or Texas handgun license unless you are suspected of a crime.

If you are carrying a handgun, Texas law requires you to show your LTC and ID (but I thought LTC was legal ID in Texas, all by itself) to a peace officer of magistrate who asks for ID.

Which statute states this?

Abraham wrote:Some here have proclaimed (what I'm about post is based on a citizen not being guilty of doing anything criminal, but yeah maybe was speeding or failing to use a turn signal) that if L.E. requests a search your car, you should respectfully, deny the search. What the heck is germane about searching your vehicle because you were speeding...?

If, as I've seen in some of the Live PD shows (and other of this type L.E.documentaries) the refusee, if you will, then has their vehicle towed away and impounded while the L.E.O. gets a search warrant. You are then left to walk home or call your spouse to come get you, a cab, a friend, etc. In my opinion this is an abuse of power.

You are subject to this sort of treatment (remember, I'm discussing a non-criminal citizen) when you simply don't care to put up with a search. Maybe you have a doctor's appointment, or again simply don't care to have your vehicle searched and say so. You can refuse in a friendly, respectful manner, but I've seen instances on these shows where the L.E.O. then starts asking 'why can't we search your vehicle' and I don't think you owe them an explanation.

Or, maybe some of you in L.E. can explain how this isn't an abuse of power. Also remember, I'm not talking about drivers they've stopped who have all the earmarks of lowlifes, like gang tats, pants halfway down their posteriors, etc, but well groomed, average citizens.

Abraham wrote:I watched an old (one year) "Live PD" and the officer absolutely insisted the passenger provide I.d., with the accompanying 'how can we know if you have a warrant if we can't identify you baloney?'

If he believes that, why not check everyone, everywhere....? Hey, police state, here we come, because we're all probably guilty of something...now line up, and whip out those id.s, now...

This garbage has to stop.

We do (I think) still live in America and I really don't want to think radical anti-L.E.O. forces have a leg to stand on, but this kind of crap has to stop.

swilkes wrote:In a traffic stop I didn’t think you had to show I’d or answer any questions being a passenger? They didn’t pull over the passenger they pull over the driver.

Teamless wrote:

Liberty wrote: otherwise fishing.

Most times they are "fishing" for something that they can hook you up on.

I will always be respectful to an officer who is doing his duty (even if I don't agree with his methods).
If asked for ID, I would give it, as I am always carrying and the law states (even without a penalty for not doing so) I must do this.

However, they want to "search my car" "search my person" or "search my house" - my answer is NO.
If they say "what do you have to hide? My answer is still "NO"
"where are you coming from" "where are you going" - again, these are all used for 'fishing' - to find out info to hang you up on.