TexasCHLforum.com

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Guilt by association is a slippery slope, a very slippery slope. I understand that the term "gang" connotes a very negative image in the minds of most people and rightfully so. So does the term "terrorist" and there are elected officials that are calling for NRA members, concealed carry licensees and even any gun owners to be labeled as terrorists. There are Democrats who argue the same for Tea Party Republicans.

Once we allow the government to deny rights to a person who has not committed a crime based upon the government's unilateral decision to label that person as undesirable, then Pandora's Box as been opened and freedom is on its way to extension. Let's focus on constitutional protections, not the ownership of the ox getting gored.



1 million% agree!

As a practical matter, if gangs recruit people with a clean record so they can carry a gun during gang "activities," it won't take long for them to lost their LTC.

Chas.

talltex wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

Abraham wrote:nightmare69 ,
Some of us (for instance, you...) can identify a dirtbag when you see a dirtbag.

I'll admit that I can't. Some of the biggest dirtbags on the planet tend to wear suits and ties and are much more dangerous to our wallets than a someone who wears less acceptable forms of clothing.

I'm fine with LTC getting taken away if gang membership is proven through a judicial process. I just don't want to shift the burden of proof the other way by abusing the legal process.

What do you do with "gang members" who turn their lives around and have no criminal record? Are they banned for life?

I believe after 5yrs of a clean record they are taken off the gang information system in Texas. I've applied for access to this great system.

to address each of the highlighted statements:
1. Just being a "dirtbag" isn't an illegal act. Until they've committed a criminal offense they are just a law abiding "dirtbag" with the same rights as anyone else.
2. I can't even agree with revoking a license just because they are proven to be a member of a particular group if they've never been arrested and convicted of anything. I personally can't stand rap music, sagging pants, sideways caps, or tattoos...but I don't have the right to tell others what they can listen to or wear or do to their own bodies as long as they are not committing illegal acts.
3. This whole discussion was about people that ALREADY have a CLEAN record...which was frustrating your desire to revoke their LTC.

16Adams wrote:Just an observation after a 30 year career in a large police department. I watched a lot of young rookies come and go. Two things they had in common: no hobbies and wanted to rewrite laws to their view in life. They burn out. Almost all departed and went into some type of sales job- where they failed. The mentality that "life should conform to me" is interesting. The lack of ability to adjust can make life and career choices a tough gig.

Stay safe and best of luck.

talltex wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

GlassG19 wrote:

talltex wrote:

nightmare69 wrote: We should be able to fill out the paperwork to send to DPS as we do now when we arrest a LTC holder. Then they suspend the license pending final disposition. The process should be the same for a gang member.

EXACTLY!! WHEN you ARREST an LTC holder....at that point the same principle applies...not before. The problem is, you are wanting to be able to circumvent the legal process and revoke someone BEFORE they've actually committed any offense. You seek to appoint yourself judge and jury and declare someone guilty because, in your opinion, they MIGHT do something at some point in the future. That is just wrong!

I'm with you Talltex!
Unbelievable! That's a huge problem that people are trying to be the all above, Judge & Jury, that is just wrong is right!

Lol not at all. I would let DPS make that determination as we do now. This is my and many other LEOs opinion as we are the ones who deal with gang members and the rest of the scum on a daily basis. Believe what you like, I feel like gang members shouldn't have a LTC and nothing you say is going to change my mind.

Back to the LEO forums I go...cheers.

FINALLY...one of your statements I can agree with. Which is unfortunate, because as someone who intends to make a career of Law Enforcement, you should not view and approach the people you are sworn to "protect and serve" (even "the scum you deal with on a daily basis") with a closed mind and a preconceived confrontational attitude based on based on your limited experience.

talltex wrote:

nightmare69 wrote: We should be able to fill out the paperwork to send to DPS as we do now when we arrest a LTC holder. Then they suspend the license pending final disposition. The process should be the same for a gang member.

EXACTLY!! WHEN you ARREST an LTC holder....at that point the same principle applies...not before. The problem is, you are wanting to be able to circumvent the legal process and revoke someone BEFORE they've actually committed any offense. You seek to appoint yourself judge and jury and declare someone guilty because, in your opinion, they MIGHT do something at some point in the future. That is just wrong!