TexasCHLforum.com

heh, you folks crack me up sometimes.

like i said, i'm not gonna debate the legality of the issue. Yall have fun doing that. I'm talking more about property rights, morality/ethics, respecting a private property owner because of his obvious intent, etc.

I said my 2 cents i suppose and it looks like there are others like minded who agree. That's enough for me. :)

anygunanywhere wrote: If a private property owner posts his property to prevent patrons from packing, the property owner should take whatever measures necessary to ensure that the invited patrons are as protected as they would be if they were packing.
Anygun

You hit the nail on the head there man. That's really what this issue is about and sooner or later I think this is going to be tested in court and will turn a LOT of business around on their heels on 30.06 posting.

IMO a business that deprives you of your ability to carry on their property is responsible for providing that protection. I'm fairly sure texas courts would agree with that. As soon as a CHL holder is forced to disarm, is assaulted and sues there will be case law in place to cite for additional suits. (chime in here Charles, by all means)

That will make every business that posts realize they are TRULY responsible for security at their locations and if they're not willing to provide true personal security then they had better put that liability back on their patrons.

In that day and age I think we'll see a lot less postings. For now, the issue remains.

tbranch wrote:

LedJedi wrote:I'm not going to get into the legality of size, contrast or placement as to me it's almost irrelevant.

I don't have a problem with the rights of private business or property owners. They do have the right to control their property.

30.06 tells them how to go about enforcing that right. If not, someone could argue that a tiny ghostbuster sign was effective notice. The law allows owners to exercise their right to control of their property while protecting CHLs.

There is no almost sign. It either complies or it does not. If the sign is correct, I will comply and either leave my weapon in the car or do business elsewhere. If not, I was not properly notified and will act accordingly.

Tom

I'm fairly sure that nobody here would pay any heed to a ghostbuster sign. I certainly don't and in my mind it's in no way a slight to a property owner. I always assume that business owners who post those did so deliberately by not posting anything even close to the correct sign.

However, imo, if a business owner goes through the trouble to find the correct text and post it in a reasonably visible location then they have done their part in informing me of their wishes. I will respect those wishes and try to educate the business owner as to the facts of the situation and question their motives in posting if for nothing else, to satisfy my own curiosity.

If the letters are .05 of an inch too short, but it's posted in the correct locations it's close enough for me. Their intent is clear in that situation and I will respect it, talk to the owner and if needed, vote with my wallet.

To ignore their obvious intent is questionably legal at best, but worse it's immoral and contrary to the values our country was founded on by ignoring the rights of private property.

If you don't like a place being posted, do something about it, but don't ignore it.

This is a subject that's been discussed here off and on for a bit, and I thought it deserved it's own thread.

I'm not going to get into the legality of size, contrast or placement as to me it's almost irrelevant. I say almost because I believe the store/business owners have a responsibility to place the sign in a very obvious place which is why the law is so specific imo. You guys can debate the legality of that stuff all you want and I'll happily watch (and learn from the fine folks on this forum).

My point:
Business owners have rights and freedoms just like you and I. We have no legal "right" to patronize a private business. We are there at the invitation of the owners. The owners have a very real legal (and in my opinion moral) right to arbitrate how firearms are carried on their property. To ignore that and disrespect their rights makes you little better than any disrespecting thug on the street.

If you had a business and wanted it posted 30.06 for whatever reason (just pretend for a moment) how would you feel about folks ignoring your wishes on your property?

To blatantly and willfully carry across a 30.06 sign that is generally posted in good faith (if not by letter of the law) is to completely ignore the property rights of that owner. Would YOU want to be treated that way? It's just Un-American and completely disrespectful in my opinion.

However, you do have the power to express your opinion and your influence by means of talking with the owners/employees and by voting with your dollars. Make the owner aware of the situation and how you feel about it and if needed, vote with your dollars and make them aware of your vote.