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68Charger wrote:I don't think anyone has ever had the experience to even say how effective any caliber is when used.

I have at work, especially in regards to dogs.

And BAD17 claimed to have seen how poor the 9mm performs, I was curious as to what capacity.

While I'm going against the grain, I don't buy that shot placement is more important in smaller diameter rounds....

I'm of the opinion that shot placement is paramount regardless of caliber...a larger round does not take up the slack of a poor hit. Research shows that COM hits from 9mm are plenty lethal to be considered a serious defensive caliber.


As far as claiming that the 9mm is ineffective because it didn't kill 50 cent...I don't think I can take that seriously. I'm sure people have been shot with a .45 and survived too...it's the law of averages.

I prefer a .45, sure, I feel it IS better than most. But, I don't tow the line that the 9mm is anemic. That's kind of like the guys on M4C or Arf that say a RRA is no good for home defense as it is not a fighting rifle...

To the OP, shoot what you like and accept which trade offs you desire.

RE: glock SF frames....grip on a 21sf or 30sf is not even close to 19. Significantly larger IMO.

BAD17 wrote:I agree with TAM. I don't like the 40 either. I own a Springfield XD 40 and it is a fine weapon but well it's just snappy. I carry a Kimber ultra II in a 45. I IMHO don't know why anyone would carry a 9 mm. I have seen how ineffective they are. I have also seen how effective a 45 is. with a 9 or a 40 they have to be placed well. A 45 you have a little more leeway with them. IMO.

Where have you see the ineffectiveness of the 9mm demonstrated?

I'm probably in the minority but I hate the .40. It's so snappy that it annoys me. When we were issued G22s, fast, surgical strings of fire were possible but troublesome. As soon as we got our 21sf guns (.45acp) in and qual'ed, almost everyone shot better (...except those that already maxed out even on the .40s ;)....)

I don't buy the grip size argument because of what I've seen. A girl on my team is barely 5-00 100lbs. She has tiny hands and shoots the bulky G21sf better than the G22. And likes shooting it better too. Smaller grip size in theory would be better, but the gains are ofset by firing the snappy cartridge.