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Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Soap wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Soap wrote:You also do want to DUCK. This SWAT says don't duck?

I deleted my response to this most arrogant of responses, but I must comment on the above statement. No, you don't want to duck and if that's your philosophy, then leave your gun at home and carry a sword. It's obvious I (and Mark) was talking about the natural but dangerous tendency to duck one's head while firing blindly. Neither Mark nor I are saying not to use cover/concealment when it's available. Ducking while you are in the open and leaving your body open doesn't make you safer, but firing while doing so endangers others.

Carry what you will, I said I wasn't trying to get anyone to change their mind.

Chas.

When I said "Duck" I meant move. You don't want to stand still unless you're wearing armor.

Let's just chalk it up to a miscommunication on both of our parts. My statement in the original post was, Don't duck, run and spray hoping not only to get one or two rounds out of 15 not only on target, but in a location that will stop the threat from shooting at you." This is a response seen far too often in shootings. I will say that, while I agree with the "get off the X" approach, I do so only while drawing my gun, unless I have reachable cover/concealment in which case I will move quickly to cover. Trying to deliver accurate fire while moving is a myth. If cover/concealment is available, get to it, then fire. Shooting on the move is nothing more than suppressive fire which is fine on a battle field, but not in civilian settings. That's a factor in many LEO misses.

The two IDPA rules that bother me the most are 1) a limited number of non-threat targets in a scenario; and 2) allowing or requiring shooting on the move. Most shooters are moving so slow one can barely discern movement. They do this because moving quickly to cover will result in almost 100% misses.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Soap wrote:You also do want to DUCK. This SWAT says don't duck?

I deleted my response to this most arrogant of responses, but I must comment on the above statement. No, you don't want to duck and if that's your philosophy, then leave your gun at home and carry a sword. It's obvious I (and Mark) was talking about the natural but dangerous tendency to duck one's head while firing blindly. Neither Mark nor I are saying not to use cover/concealment when it's available. Ducking while you are in the open and leaving your body open doesn't make you safer, but firing while doing so endangers others.

Carry what you will, I said I wasn't trying to get anyone to change their mind.

Chas.

G.A. Heath wrote:

Soap wrote:So your source said 45 seems to perform slightly better? Maybe it is so. Did he also tell you how many times his officers MISS when they're in these "gun fights"? If they perform with littler difference I would rather have a higher capacity. Statistically officers miss more than civilians but that is due to the type of engagements we come across. A civies is usually different than an Officers. No one wants to reload while being shot at and its not realistic for civilians. You also do want to DUCK. This SWAT says don't duck? I'm sure he has a plate carrier on. Get off the X. I would rather have capacity on my side, or my rifle.

Ooooo, Caliber wars!
I will admit that I tend to carry single stack pistols, mostly because I shoot the platform better or it conceals better depending on my particular situation at the time. I Carry a 9mm as much as I carry a 45, and I carry a 10mm almost as much as I carry a 9mm. I can see folks making one claim or another but in the end it's a personal choice.

As for the don't duck vs duck/spray and pray, it's a matter of training and experience. Col. Jeff Cooper would gladly support the stand and deliver Approach, and he would add you should fight your way to the threat in order to ensure it was eliminated. Many folks base their tactics on TV and Movies, but in real life car doors do not stop bullets very often (if ever) and what most people think of as cover is nothing more than concealment. I have talked to those who have been in real gun fights, I hate to say it but gun fights are not nice orderly events where people take turns popping up from cover and shooting in the general direction of their opponent. If your target is untrained and thinks this is the way to fight and your waiting for him to pop up from behind his cover/concealment you will end the gun fight before he can aim and put one where it counts.