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KBCraig wrote:Even if you ignore 46.15(i) ("presumed to be traveling"), 46.15(b)(3) says that 46.02 ("unlawfully carrying a weapon") does not apply if a person is traveling.

Section 46.02 applies equally to handguns, illegal knives, and clubs. So does the non-applicability given under 46.15. We could argue about the 46.15(i) "presumption" applying to illegal knives or clubs, but the law as written does not apply only to handguns. I'd give a decent lawyer good odds at beating a charge of UCW over a knife or club in a car.

Kevin

I agree with your logic. However, I don't think it plays out that way on the street.

KBCraig wrote:

CHL/LEO wrote:

A machete or short Samurai sword in its scabbard stuck between the seats is a very effective weapon for carrying in your car or truck.

I can pretty well assure you that if you are stopped in my city, and an officer finds you with either of these illegal weapons, they will be confiscated. Most officers that I know (in my department and others) would probably arrest you, have your vehicle towed, and take you to jail.

The law is the same for unlicensed carry of handguns in the car as it is for "illegal knives" and clubs: PC 46.02 makes it a crime to have one on or about your person, and PC 46.15(3) says that 46.02 does not apply to someone who is traveling. The 46.15(i) presumption applies to "illegal knives" and clubs just the same as it does handguns.

Kevin

I don't believe that was the intent of the law, and that is certainly not how it is being applied;

(i) [ For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

I realize it appears logically to make illegal knives and clubs legal, but the reality is it does not.

austin wrote:A machete or short Samurai sword in its scabbard stuck between the seats is a very effective weapon for carrying in your car or truck.

Both are illegal to carry.

You can also travel with your dog.

A samurai long sword in its scabbard stuck between your mattresses is very effective in most home encounters.

Not against an intruder armed with a gun

seamusTX wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

seamusTX wrote:... I have been stopped when I hadn't done anything wrong. The last time it happened, I had a temporary plate (I had just bought the car) and the officer wanted a better look at it.

Where was the plate?

Where the license plate normally goes.

Perhaps I should add, it was in Arkansas with a Texas temporary plate, at night. I can understand why the Arkansas patrolman did not recognize it. The incident was uneventful.

- Jim

I see. I asked because a lot of dealers place the temp tag in the rear win dow. It is required to be placed unobstructed and lit at night, just like yout regular tag.

CHL/LEO wrote:txinvestigator posted:

If the officer asks if I know why he stopped me, I will answer, with a smile, "I bet your gonna tell me".

You're too easy - only a current or retired cop would answer the question that way.

That might have something to do with why I answer that way. LOL

Also, if my gut says to look a little closer to see what I might find - "a fishing trip" as you refer to it, I will ask them a few questions. You'd be surprised (well, you wouldn't be but most people would be) at what people will tell you when you just ask them questions like, "Are there any drugs in the car, weapons, guns, knives? Do you have any warrants out for you arrests? Does this car belong to you?"

As you noted. those questions are not standard, they are used when your instincts alert you. That's good police work, IMO. You can almost read it in their eyes, "how did he KNOW?".

I don't write very many tickets (we've got plenty of officers on our department where traffic enforcement is their primary responsibility) but I will stop people and let them know what they're doing that is in violation of the law so that maybe they will change their behavior. .

Good for PR too. And it lets you check for warrants, etc. One of my best pops was an Agg Rape (yes, it was a long time ago) of a child warrant made on a car that was only slightly speeding.

seamusTX wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:As I have said repeatedlly here, obey the traffic laws, don't act like a goober, and you won't have reason to be in contact with the police.

That's generally the case, but I have been stopped when I hadn't done anything wrong. The last time it happened, I had a temporary plate (I had just bought the car) and the officer wanted a better look at it.

It's also possible to get in a wreck that isn't your fault. In that case, if you are not injured and start retrieving things from the vehicle, they will watch you closely.

- Jim

Where was the plate?

I hadn't considered wrecks. Good point.

seamusTX wrote:

CHL/LEO wrote:Not entirely true. Let's say I stopped Rooster on a traffic stop and while I was conversing with him I asked the question, "Are there any guns in your vehicle?" Now Mr. Rooster being an honest person with nothing to hide replies, "Yes officer I do have a handgun in my car." No warrant needed as Mr. Rooster volunteered that he had a handgun.

Right.

I have made my mind up not to answer questions at traffic stops. That might get me in trouble some day, but I figure when a LEO starts asking where I'm coming from, going to, etc., I would already be in trouble.

- Jim

You guys KNOW how pro-LEO I am, but I too, refuse to participate in fishing expeditions.

As I have said repeatedlly here, obey the traffic laws, don't act like a goober, and you won't have reason to be in contact with the police.

There seems to be much worry about getting stopped and grilled.

However, should I ever be stopped, I will answer the questions the officer needs to establish my identity, determine the location of my handgun if he asks where it is after I provide him with my chl. Much past that I will be friendly, but not vulunteering with info.

If the officer asks if I know why he stopped me, I will answer, with a smile, "I bet your gonna tell me". I will keep my other answers light like that. If he asks me if he can search my vehicle, I'll tell him I do not give consent to search. All the while I will be POLITE.

A person who is traveling may lawfully carry a handgun in his vehicle.

Texas Penal Code 46.02
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club.

TPC 46.15
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(3) is traveling;


(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.

No distance is required.