TexasCHLforum.com

Wilson wrote:

txinvestigator wrote: 1. It is too easy to acces the weapon before you are fully awake.

Immediate and easy access is the reason the pistols are under our pillows. I’m not sure what is meant by fully awake. While I suppose I dream, I’m told everyone does. I never remember them, as I’m either awake or asleep. While my wife wakes up slowly (remembers dreams) I have trusted her not to shoot me for several decades, so I see no reason to change.

txinvestigator wrote: 2. It is VERY possible to discharge the weapon while asleep.
Both of these things have happened before, and not just once.

I convinced its a thousand times easier for a person to accidentally discharge a weapon with a long trigger pull while awake as opposed to asleep. That being the case the most likely chance of discharging a pillow gun is from dropping on the floor while making the bed. This is not a consideration with a properly inspected and working P-3AT, with its hammer block.

I have a relative that feel perfectly safe hunting but question my safety carrying a handgun because it’s too dangerous. We have agreed that if either of us accidentally shoots ourselves the other can whisper over the casket “I told you so�. This seems to make family get togethers more tolerably.

Its your life.

There are many reasons one might find their had around a handgun while asleep during the night, and more reasons where one would exert the less than 15 pounds required to fire the weapon.

As a cop, I had a NG while AWAKE, think you can't do it while asleep?

Regarding the accessing the weapon while not fully awake; I know of several instances where a person grabbed a readily accessible firearm before getting fully awake, just woken up from heavy sleep, and shot someone they should not have.

Are you really telling me you base your premise on the fact that it has never been a problem? By that reasoning, if you have yet to need to shoot someone with a gun hidden under your pillow, then why have a gun under your pillow? You have never needed it.

I realize it is difficult to look at your habits and beliefs and admit something you have been doing and believed strongly in might need to change, but this issue could be a deadly one for you or you spouse.

Wilson wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

Wilson wrote:We aren’t paranoid but 12 gauge pump & PLR-16 under the bed, Glocks in the nightstands and P-3ATs under our pillows.

No disrespect meant, but having a handgun under you pillow is a REALLY bad idea.

None taken. I’m sure you have reasons why it might be a bad idea for you but I can’t think of one reason why it’s not a good idea for my wife and myself.

1. It is too easy to acces the weapon before you are fully awake.

2. It is VERY possible to discharge the weapon while asleep.

Both of these things have happened before, and not just once.

Wilson wrote:We aren’t paranoid but 12 gauge pump & PLR-16 under the bed, Glocks in the nightstands and P-3ATs under our pillows.

No disrespect meant, but having a handgun under you pillow is a REALLY bad idea.

kw5kw wrote: Yes, and yes. I prefer a hand held light separate from the gun. The hand held light is in my left hand… above my head, that gives an intimidating picture of a very tall man using the flashlight. I use the flashlight only to startle… instant on… and instant off. Bright light suddenly appearing in the intruder’s eyes will blind him. The flashlight being held high in my left hand gives the BG a much smaller target, while keeping me much safer some 2.5 feet to the right and 1.5 feet lower than the light the BG saw. Worst case, if he fires, he might hit my arm/hand, my body is much safer. Then… I have a much better target to return fire at.

If the flashlight is mounted on my gun, that’s where he’s shooting and I have NO body armor to protect me as the SWAT teams do. BAD IDEA for the average ‘Joe’ homeowner to have a tactical light on your weapon… IMHO, anyway.

Can't argue with that logic. Also consider this though; with a handheld light you will be forced to handle and possibly fire your weapon 1-handed. No problem, but how many actually practice that? If you need your off-hand for anything you must lose your light source.

With a weapon mounted light, you will use two hands on the gun. If you need your left hand, to open a door, parry off a close assault, etc, you do not lose your light.

Not disagreeing with you, just food for thought.

txinvestigator wrote:…
Security vs accessability for the weapon is also an issue. NEVER trust that your kids cannot get to the weapon without waking you. One of our LEO's still has a bullet in his head from thinking such. Never trust that they won't get to the weapon.

I promote the fact that keeping guns a secret is what kills. It’s the ‘unknown’… that curiosity that is intriguing to the children. Teach them, be honest with them, show them what a gun is capable of… have them shoot a watermelon, and have them watch it explode. Teach them that this is NOT a video game, where when you shoot somebody, you don’t just press ‘reset’ to start over again. Teach them that this is for REAL, that when people die they are gone until Jesus comes back!

Agree 100%. My 10 year old daughter has been shooting since she was 7. She can recite the 4 cardinal safety rules. (heck, she knows the difference between cover and concealment, can pie a corner, do quick peeks,etc, but that another thread :) ) I have tested her many times by attempting to hand her a gun that I had cleared, but she didn't know it and the slide was forward. She refuses and tells me to "open it" first before she will take it.

All of that said, she is still a 10 year old.

jbirds1210 wrote:I agree with the alarm....It is always a good idea to get a good jolt to wake up by if someone cracks a window.

Tx, you mentioned two people to clear the house...I agree that it would be tough to do it with one. My situation is a bit unique because everyone that has access to my house is sleeping in my bedroom...no kids. I have worked out some of the obvious shot paths and had talks with my neighbors about them.

My plans (part of them) is to voice a loud verbal command while using a portion of my room as a safety zone. I plan on making my plans very clear to someone violating my house. I have already made my decisions about the actions should that safety zone be violated, which is part of the plan my wife and I have worked out. This portion of the plan involves target identification. I have a Glock or revolver constantly available to me and it should get me a couple of feet to my shotgun. My wife also has her gun immediately available.

Another very important plan is to have a cell phone! The action that set off your house alarm might be someone cutting your phone line. Along with a good weapon and light...I believe that a cell phone to alert authorities is vital.
Jason

Great point, I forgot to mention WHY I said it was dangerous to clear a house alone if you don't have to. You should stay put. You are much safer and tactically superior if you maintain a position you already control.

I don't like discussing that specfically, but I will explain my thinking a little bit.

A handgun (or any gun for that matter) is not good as the only means of security for your home. Lights, alarms, dogs, good locks, etc, are the first line of defense. You want to be able to fully wake up before you would need to access your weapon. I can tell you any horror stories of a droggy homeowner shooting a friendly.

A plan for you and your family is critical. Have it and practice it. Include your family in the practice.

How will you communicate with the authorities, each other?

Do you know that tactically it takes at least 2 people to clear a house? 2 is the minimum, 4 is better. Taking off through your house after a potential intruder is dangerous for you and your family. Depending on the layout of your home, you may have kids you have to go to.

How is your house set up? If you fire in any direction, even up (for those of you in 2-stories) where will the bullet go if you miss or over-penetrate?

Do you have a light? Have you practiced how to handle a gun AND a light? Is your light weapon mounted? If so, remember that to illuminate anyone, including a family member, you will be covering them with the muzzle.

Security vs accessability for the weapon is also an issue. NEVER trust that your kids cannot get to the weapon without waking you. One of our LEO's still has a bullet in his head from thinking such. Never trust that they won't get to the weapon.

Below is a posting I made on another site in 2004 regarding



intruder at 4am

Or so I thought. The alarm was set to instant, the German shepherd was in the backyard, and we were all peacefully asleep when suddenly, the burglar alarm began to squeal. We have a plan for this, we have practiced the plan.

I grabbed the Kimber .45 and Surefire flashlight. My wife jumped up and went to the alarm keypad. As I put on my glasses, I told her to disarm the alarm.

I began down the hall to clear a path to my daughter’s bedroom upstairs. I noticed my wife following me down the hall and said to her; “no, like we practiced� She replied, “got it, ok, ok� then went into the bedroom and locked the door.

We have windows only on the front and rear of the house, so I quickly made a visual scan of the front windows, no apparent Point of Entry (POE). I made my way to the stairway, where I could see the den windows and the back door, but not the garage door. Again no apparent POE, and the dog was not barking.

Stairways are a tactical challenge, but I made my way to the top. I scanned across the playroom. There are 2 windows upstairs that are accessible from the roof without using a big ladder. One of those is my daughter's, and that window is alarmed.

I could see her bed from the top of the stairs. It was empty….She has been instructed in the case of an alarm to get into the closet and wait for Daddy or the police. I made a beeline for her room while covering the non-cleared areas of the upstairs. Once in her room I called for her and gave the pre-arranged password. She came out of the closet rubbing her eyes, complaining that it was to late to practice. She then saw the gun and asked what was going on.

I told her to stay with me, and we made it back to the bedroom. The phone rang while I was clearing the house, and I assumed it was the alarm company. I gave the password to my wife, and she let us in the bedroom. She was still on the phone with the alarm company. (not planned, but good thinking) She told the alarm company that all was well, and hung up.

We then turned on all of the lights and did a more thorough check. There was no indication or evidence of an attempted break-in. It had been raining, and there was no indication anyone had been outside near any window or door. Just a False Alarm.