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the real deal wrote:

txinvestigator wrote: The example you gave where

the real deal wrote:Fire cocked weapon and cock

would describe a SINGLE action semi-auto.

Actually I wrote: Dual Action = Fire cocked weapon and cock --> fire weapon

The more grammatical way to type it would have been "Double Action has two functions = 1) Fire cocked weapon and, 2) Cock an uncocked firearm and fire weapon"

I don't know why I typed "Dual". I know better ;)

Its still not correct. Double Action, even in regards to a semi-auto, does NOT refer the number of ways the weapon can be fired. In your example, you are saying that Double Action means that the semi-auto will fire from either the cocked position or hammer down position.

That is not the case. "Action" refers to the actions performed when the trigger is pulled. What IS correct is that a traditional Double Action semi-auto will fire EITHER double action OR single action.

When firing from the hammer down position it is in the DOUBLE ACTION mode. When firing with the hammer in the rear (cocked) position, then it is fired in SINGLE ACTION.

That is why semi-autos that do not have a mechanism to cock the hammer are called DOUBLE ACTION ONLY. The fire only from the double action position.

;)

the real deal wrote:T

Single Action = Fire cocked weapon
Dual Action =Fire cocked weapon and cock --> fire weapon

Actually no. The terms are single action and DOUBLE action.

SA=Pressing the trigger performs 1 action; releasing the hammer or striker

DA=Pressing the trigger performs 2 actions; moving the hammer or striker to the cocked position AND releasing the hammer or striker.



For example; a modern revolver can be fired DA. The hammer starts from the down position. By pressing the trigger you 1) move the hammer to the cocked position, and 2) release the hammer to fire the weapon.

some confusion comes from the terminology used in semi-autos.

The example you gave where

Fire cocked weapon and cock

would describe a SINGLE action semi-auto.

A standard 'double action" semi-auto begins its firing cycle from the hammer down position. Pressing the trigger 1)moves the hammer to the cocked position, and 2) releases the hammer. The movement of the slide after the gun fires them moves the hammer to the cocked position, where subsequent shots are fired single action (the trigger press simply releases the hammer) until the gun is manually de-cocked.

A Double Action Only design operates just as in the standard DA semi-auto, only the movement of the slide after the weapon fires does not cock the hammer, but allows the hammer to return to the "at rest" position. Every shot is fired double action.

A Glock, when the slide is cycled to load a round, only has aabout 25% tension on the internal striker. pressing the trigger 1) completes cocking the striker, and 2) releases the striker to fire the weapon. Clearly 2 actions.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:txinvestigator:

Thanks for doing the pattern/distance tests and posting the results.

Chas.

Sure.

I did tests with the new reduced recoil from Federal. It was even tighter, but I forgot the camera. :(

couzin wrote:In the sense of single or double actions - Glock (and real clones) are neither. The striker ('firing pin') is partially cocked by the slide when the first round is racked an then again by succeeding shots. The rest of the 'cock' is completed by the trigger as it is pulled rearward until release. I think some Glock look likes (no external hammer visible) actually have the capability of an internal cocking (like single action) and a decocker (for double action) - Walther makes one I think.

The press of the trigger completes the cocking of the striker, then releases it; hence, a double action pull. (ATF also ruled Glocks DA)

The Springfield XD has the striker fully cocked. Pressing the trigger only releases the striker. That is single action.

The Walther P99 and S&W clones are striker fired. Some of them have a button to release the tension on the striker, effectively de-cocking it.

nemesis wrote:

I'm confused on this issue. To the best of my knowledge, the Sigma has no hammer or, at least, it is not an exposed hammer. I thought it was striker fired. In any event, a pistol in good working order should not fire though force is applied to the hammer.

My fault. I meant to type "unless the TRIGGER is pressed"

the real deal wrote:Thanks couzin. That is the answer I was hoping for.

Yes, I do clear it and put it to bed at night. This is because I have a Remington 870 with light attachment and buck shot for late night problems. I don't wake the easiest, so I need something that doesn't have to be lined up perfectly on the target.

As stated, the Sigma will not fire unless the hammer is pressed.

Regarding aiming a shotgun, I hear a common myth all of the time. That is that one does not need to aim the shotgun well. That is not true at all, especially at distances encountered in a house.

I patterned my Mossberg 500 at different distances with standard 00 buck.





below is 25 yards, or 75 feet.


Most homes are not going to be over 20-30 foot distances at most, I believe. Thats only about ten yards. As you can see, even at ten yards the pattern is tight and a miss would be easy.

That said, I believe a long gun is easier to get on target due to the length of the barrell and sight radius. However, the length of the barrel can be a detriment in close quarters also. Especially negotiating corners.

I do keep an AR with a surefire light attached near the bed though.