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by HKUSP45C
Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:47 am
Forum: New to CHL?
Topic: No gun company policy and 30.06 sign
Replies: 58
Views: 8878

cbr600 wrote:
HKUSP45C wrote:Totrs, as I understand them, exist when the actions of another harm you through no fault of your own. In the case of an employer disarming you it simply wouldn't apply. Anymore than your employer would be responsible for body damage to your car during a hail storm in his or her parking lot.
It's a long shot but you could argue bailment exists. ;-)

We might also consider the recent lawsuit won against McDonalds for criminal acts committed by third parties, because McDonalds didn't warn its employees about phone calls from people pretending to be police.
Ahhh! but see, McDs had a hand in it there too. They withheld information that could have lead to a different outcome.

By that logic, your suit would only work if your boss had been getting phone calls warning of a pending workplace assault and kept them to himself ... But then that argument would probably work regardless of the weapons policy.


Edit:
It just occurred to me that someone will likely make the logical leap that your employer disarming you would lead to a different outcome.
Nope, there is a very large difference between getting calls that are suspicious and thus providing clear evidence that "something" is afoot and not telling your employees than having a standing policy that prevents people from carrying when no evidence of a specific threat exists.
by HKUSP45C
Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:55 am
Forum: New to CHL?
Topic: No gun company policy and 30.06 sign
Replies: 58
Views: 8878

frankie_the_yankee wrote:
Xander wrote:
That is not a valid comparison. There are laws that protect workers from harassment and certain (not all!) unsafe environments. A better example would be that nothing in the law, for instance, prevents a taxi cab company from sending a driver into a known bad part of town to pick up a fare. If you don't like driving into bad parts of town at night, your legal option is to quit, or refuse and be fired.

If you want a comparison for the potential recourse against a company for a policy that effects you negatively, make it the actions against companies for other matters of policy, not actions taken when laws were broken.
OK. How about this? Buy a ladder lately? Some guy steps on the paint can shelf, falls down, sues the ladder company for makng an "unsafe" product, and wins. So now ladders all have stickers on these shelves that say, "This is not a step".

The ladder company did not break any laws when they put the ladders on the market. No one forced the guy to buy one. And no one made him step on the paint can shelf. Yet he wins the suit anyway.

(Note: I don't know if a suit like this wa ever filed, but the ladder companies seem to be concerned enough about it to put these stickers, along with many, many others, on every ladder they sell.)

So somebody does something, within the law, and you get hurt as a result of it, and there is a potential tort action as a result.

Of course it matters how direct the connection is between the action and the harm. The defense could argue that even if you had a gun the BG accosting you at the ATM could have still hurt or killed you. I think the outcome of a suit would depend on the circumstances. Best case would be a guy with a CHL whacked by a rampage killer when he could very probably have protected himself and others had company policy allowed for him to be armed.

Just because it would be something new doesn't mean it isn't possible. New torts get created almost every day.
Only because I'm a glutton for punishment:

Yes, I know, people win unworthy lawsuits all the time.

I revise my statement to read "You can't really expect to have a valid legal standing for damages when you show up to a place voluntarily and disarm voluntaril, though you might still win from the insurance agency and even possibly the jury."

Though it seems long winded and a tad cumbersome in language. It never occurred to me that when I made that perfectly lucid argument someone would point out that it's possible to win money in America for ANYTHING, heck I thought that was common knowledge. My original point was that your employer, by disarming you, has done nothing, at all, to endanger you. Therefor you'd have no real legal standing.

Though, obviously you may still win.

Totrs, as I understand them, exist when the actions of another harm you through no fault of your own. In the case of an employer disarming you it simply wouldn't apply. Anymore than your employer would be responsible for body damage to your car during a hail storm in his or her parking lot.
by HKUSP45C
Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:41 pm
Forum: New to CHL?
Topic: No gun company policy and 30.06 sign
Replies: 58
Views: 8878

Sangiovese wrote:
RPBrown wrote:As with a lot of companies, insurance requires them to have it in the manuel.
THIS is something that I have a serious problem with. I hate the fact that companies think that a policy about weapons makes them less liable if something happens.

In my opinion, the company becomes MORE liable if they disarm a legally armed citizen. By disarming me and removing my ability to protect myself, they have taken on complete responsibility for my safety.

If I am at work and am not carrying because of the company policy and something happens and I am injured in a situation where I would have been able to defend myself... you can bet yer booties that I will be suing them for failing to protect me after they denied me my legal right to protect myself.

My company policy also prohibits weapons stored in cars - preventing me from carrying during my commute. If I were to obey this foolish requirement and have an incident occur during my commute - I would be suing them for denying me my right to defend myself during my commute.

If this happened a few times, employers would realize that banning all guns is not some miracle cure for lawsuits... and they might stop making these ridiculous policies.
I love this argument.

Your argument would only work if before ANY of this happened your employer purchased you outright from your lawful owner and then forced you to work for them. Since you would be company property at that point your employer would be responsible for you. Not until then though.

It doesn't take a shrewd legal mind to spot the fallacy in this argument. Since you aren't required by ANYONE to work for your employer you are therefore not required to show up on his property. \

Since your employer is not forcing you into a situation where you are disarmed they are not liable for you being disarmed.

You can't really expect to win a liability suit where you are showing up to a place voluntarily and are disarmed voluntarily.

Added to which just how do you think you'll prove that you having a gun would have made everything better and kept you from being injured?

Nope, sorry, when you signed up your employer told you exactly what you were getting into. You chose to accept the position with all of its blemishes and perks. You, alone, are solely responsible for you disarmed status.

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