TexasCHLforum.com

WildBill wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:
There are other markers of evangelism, but the principle idea is that it is both fundamental in doctrine, and outreaching, seeking to spread the faith's message for the purposes of bringing people into the faith. Thus, it is a word which is also commonly applied to Islam, which also meets those descriptives, as it is to some segments of Christianity.

So saying that you are an evangelical JW or LDS is redundant.

mojo84 wrote:

I should slow down some on my OC thoughts and give more time to let it blend into society.

That's a novel idea.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

jmra wrote:

mloamiller wrote:My church posted 30.07 signs, but no 30.06. To my knowledge, nothing has been said or announced, just quietly implemented.

CC is very prevalent in our congregation. Normal Sunday attendance is around 6500+, and I suspect we have 200+ carrying each Sunday, not counting the off-duty LEOs. I know for a fact that out of our 20 member Sunday School class, almost half have their LTC and most carry every Sunday (many of the wives don't always carry at church as they are often working with kids at some point).

If your normal attendance is 6500 and you have 200+ carrying, you are way above statistical probabilities.
I'd be willing to bet your estimate is way off. I'll explain: LTC makes up 3% of the population (3% of 6500 is 195). Obviously demographics can skew this number some but not by much. It's safe to say that at least half of LTC holders rarely if ever carry. Statistics would suggest that at most there would be under 100. Given the number of times that people on this forum have been corrected regarding the incorrect belief that church carry is illegal and the number of LTC I've encountered that simply can't understand why someone would need to carry at church, I'd be willing to bet the number is substantially lower than 100.
I believed for a number of years that carry in our was significantly higher than it actually is until multiple conversations with people that I knew were licensed revealed that they either didn't carry at all or didn't carry at church. Of course YMMV.

There is over 900,000 CHL holders in Texas, I wonder what percentage of us are evangelical Christians?

I do not mean any disrespect (I am also an evangelical Christian), but 900,000 is approximately 3% (a little less, actually) of the population, and that 900,000 do not unanimously carry 24/7. The question really is, "what percentage of NON-CHL holders are not believers?" And, "will open carry in churches deter those that are not believers from entering a church to learn more about God?"

Oldgringo wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Uhm,....er,...what is an Evangelican Christian? This term has been mentioned more than once in this thread and I am curious what/who it pertains to.

Thanks be to WildBill and Richbirdhunter, it appears that being of the First United Methodist persuasion qualifies one to be an Evangelican Christian, yes?

Oldgringo wrote:Uhm,....er,...what is an Evangelican Christian? This term has been mentioned more than once in this thread and I am curious what/who it pertains to.

jmra wrote:

mloamiller wrote:My church posted 30.07 signs, but no 30.06. To my knowledge, nothing has been said or announced, just quietly implemented.

CC is very prevalent in our congregation. Normal Sunday attendance is around 6500+, and I suspect we have 200+ carrying each Sunday, not counting the off-duty LEOs. I know for a fact that out of our 20 member Sunday School class, almost half have their LTC and most carry every Sunday (many of the wives don't always carry at church as they are often working with kids at some point).

If your normal attendance is 6500 and you have 200+ carrying, you are way above statistical probabilities.
I'd be willing to bet your estimate is way off. I'll explain: LTC makes up 3% of the population (3% of 6500 is 195). Obviously demographics can skew this number some but not by much. It's safe to say that at least half of LTC holders rarely if ever carry. Statistics would suggest that at most there would be under 100. Given the number of times that people on this forum have been corrected regarding the incorrect belief that church carry is illegal and the number of LTC I've encountered that simply can't understand why someone would need to carry at church, I'd be willing to bet the number is substantially lower than 100.
I believed for a number of years that carry in our was significantly higher than it actually is until multiple conversations with people that I knew were licensed revealed that they either didn't carry at all or didn't carry at church. Of course YMMV.

C-dub wrote:

Keith B wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:
Agreed, thank you sir. That hamburger offer I made to you on another thread is open ended. I'd like to shake your hand and thank you in person for all you do for 2A.

Rich

That sounds like a pretty 'Wimpy' offer to me. (Sorry, couldn't pass up the pun)

How about on Tuesday then?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:Which brings me back to my point from a few weeks ago, none of these OC fears are happening where OC has been legal for a long time. People are afraid of the unknown.

This claim is often made by open-carry supporters and it's one of the most unfounded, unsupported statements one could imagine. Unless you have been present at every location where someone carry a handgun openly, you have no personal knowledge to support your statement. The most anyone can honestly say is that they have not witnessed a problem.

If open-carry was the Nirvana that its supporters claim, then there wouldn't be an organization (OpenCarry.org) created to support it. If you can put up with the crap, just read some of the horror stories in the various state sections. It's clear that there are problems with open-carry.

Chas.

. . . I am saying that OC won't be all doom and gloom. I am also saying that we should enjoy this restored freedom not hide it way.

On this we agree and I pray that people who carry openly remember they are ambassadors for all Texas gun owners, even if t hey don't want the job.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:Which brings me back to my point from a few weeks ago, none of these OC fears are happening where OC has been legal for a long time. People are afraid of the unknown.

This claim is often made by open-carry supporters and it's one of the most unfounded, unsupported statements one could imagine. Unless you have been present at every location where someone carry a handgun openly, you have no personal knowledge to support your statement. The most anyone can honestly say is that they have not witnessed a problem.

If open-carry was the Nirvana that its supporters claim, then there wouldn't be an organization (OpenCarry.org) created to support it. If you can put up with the crap, just read some of the horror stories in the various state sections. It's clear that there are problems with open-carry.

Chas.

mojo84 wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

chuck j wrote:Just a thought .

Why would you OC in church ? I have attended church as long as I can remember and never seen a gun there . I carry concealed and have no problems . Why the impulse to sport a weapon in the house of GOD . You will have to explain that to me as to the advantage of such behavior ? I see no point to it but only problems . WHY CAN"T YOU CARRY CONCEALED ? Give realistic reasons .
( Please ! Do not say ...............JUST BECAUSE I CAN !)

It's ok to obey the law and CC at church but it's not ok to obey the law and OC at church.

This is your problem, not ours.

So, if a person's OC is distracting another person's ability to worship God in His house, that is their problem? Really? A person's right to OC justifies disruption of the work of the Church? If the members are good with it, OK, but if they are not..... Just because it is legal doesn't always mean it is right, wise or considerate.

I know most of the people I sit around at church and for the most part we are like minded people. It's not going to be a shock to anyone when people OC.

It has been my experience that we are very like minded when it comes to the tenets of our faith and many are like minded when it comes to firearms. But some are not. I don't think it is right to be a distraction for even the few.

We live in a me first society and anything is a distraction if you let it. My 84 year old mother in law only likes hymns and can't stand top 40 praise songs.

Praise is a distraction for her and hymns maybe a distraction for anyone younger than 35.

So what's the right answer? I did know.

Your first statement here is dead on. We live in a very "me first society" that selfishly believes it's ok to do whatever one wants and claim it's a right regardless how it may affect another.

Yep, it's one's right to make a fashion statement with their gun in church if they haven't been given notice not to. The attitude of it's my right and to heck with others is disturbing.

Do you guys exercise your right to free speech while the pastor is praying or giving his sermon also?

2015 will go down as the that everyone was offended.

Ok, I'll continue to CC at church and then after church a group of us go out to eat lunch where OC is legal. Do I only concern myself with their feelings at church and not so much after church or should I hide my OCing while I'm interacting with any church members in or out of church?

Is it more christain to CC at church and to OC out of church?

I can't help you if you can't see the difference. Whether your actions make you a better Christian or not is between you and God. It's not my place to say. I can say, I respect God enough to not want to take the chance of distracting someone from worshipping or focusing on Him.

Maybe 2015 Will go down as the year everyone exercised their rights without regard to how anyone else was effected.

mojo84 wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

chuck j wrote:Just a thought .

Why would you OC in church ? I have attended church as long as I can remember and never seen a gun there . I carry concealed and have no problems . Why the impulse to sport a weapon in the house of GOD . You will have to explain that to me as to the advantage of such behavior ? I see no point to it but only problems . WHY CAN"T YOU CARRY CONCEALED ? Give realistic reasons .
( Please ! Do not say ...............JUST BECAUSE I CAN !)

It's ok to obey the law and CC at church but it's not ok to obey the law and OC at church.

This is your problem, not ours.

So, if a person's OC is distracting another person's ability to worship God in His house, that is their problem? Really? A person's right to OC justifies disruption of the work of the Church? If the members are good with it, OK, but if they are not..... Just because it is legal doesn't always mean it is right, wise or considerate.

I know most of the people I sit around at church and for the most part we are like minded people. It's not going to be a shock to anyone when people OC.

It has been my experience that we are very like minded when it comes to the tenets of our faith and many are like minded when it comes to firearms. But some are not. I don't think it is right to be a distraction for even the few.

We live in a me first society and anything is a distraction if you let it. My 84 year old mother in law only likes hymns and can't stand top 40 praise songs.

Praise is a distraction for her and hymns maybe a distraction for anyone younger than 35.

So what's the right answer? I did know.

Your first statement here is dead on. We live in a very "me first society" that selfishly believes it's ok to do whatever one wants and claim it's a right regardless how it may affect another.

Yep, it's one's right to make a fashion statement with their gun in church if they haven't been given notice not to. The attitude of it's my right and to heck with others is disturbing.

Do you guys exercise your right to free speech while the pastor is praying or giving his sermon also?

gljjt wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

gljjt wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

chuck j wrote:Just a thought .

Why would you OC in church ? I have attended church as long as I can remember and never seen a gun there . I carry concealed and have no problems . Why the impulse to sport a weapon in the house of GOD . You will have to explain that to me as to the advantage of such behavior ? I see no point to it but only problems . WHY CAN"T YOU CARRY CONCEALED ? Give realistic reasons .
( Please ! Do not say ...............JUST BECAUSE I CAN !)

It's ok to obey the law and CC at church but it's not ok to obey the law and OC at church.

This is your problem, not ours.

So, if a person's OC is distracting another person's ability to worship God in His house, that is their problem? Really? A person's right to OC justifies disruption of the work of the Church? If the members are good with it, OK, but if they are not..... Just because it is legal doesn't always mean it is right, wise or considerate.

I know most of the people I sit around at church and for the most part we are like minded people. It's not going to be a shock to anyone when people OC.

It has been my experience that we are very like minded when it comes to the tenets of our faith and many are like minded when it comes to firearms. But some are not. I don't think it is right to be a distraction for even the few.

carlson1 wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote: "But now," he said, "take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one!

It doesn't and cover it up before you come to church.

We can't have Bible Studies or in just a few sentences I could place that in the right context for you.

carlson1 wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Well I got the official word tonight. 30.07 signs are going up this week. When my ministry lead person expressed to our head pastor that he was personally uncomfortable with CC at our church, our pastor told him we're not going to ban that because we don't want to be the kind of church that then has to put up metal detectors to make sure that congregants who used to carry obey the signs. Our senior pastor has privately told a friend of mine who carries that he is personally OK with CHL and actually feels safer knowing that there are people in the congregation who carry.

Anyway, I am relieved. If they are going to ban OC, I'd rather that it had been dealt with more subtly by empowering the churches "gatekeepers" (greeters, ushers, etc.) to give effective notice verbally, rather than posting the signs; but I can live with the signs.

I've given this a lot of thought and have discussed these issues extensively in a professional capacity with very thoughtful church leadership teams.

I think the best position is not to post any signs and to adopt a policy that requires that firearms be carried concealed only, with greeters / ushers trained and prepared with cards that explain the policy if someone does show up practicing OC.

Even though OC will soon be legal, to me it would be an indication of poor judgment for someone to show up with an openly carried firearm in church, particularly in view of the fact that the safety of the congregation is better served by keeping potential bad guys guessing about who may be carrying and who is not.

I have told our folks we will be using the "wait and see" approach.

I also agree it would be bad taste to OC in church. One thing folks seem to forget this life should not be just about me, but about others. Why would I want to be a stumbling block to another member over something that doesn't really matter. My pistol hid by my suit coat hurts no one and doesn't hurt me.

gljjt wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

chuck j wrote:Just a thought .

Why would you OC in church ? I have attended church as long as I can remember and never seen a gun there . I carry concealed and have no problems . Why the impulse to sport a weapon in the house of GOD . You will have to explain that to me as to the advantage of such behavior ? I see no point to it but only problems . WHY CAN"T YOU CARRY CONCEALED ? Give realistic reasons .
( Please ! Do not say ...............JUST BECAUSE I CAN !)

It's ok to obey the law and CC at church but it's not ok to obey the law and OC at church.

This is your problem, not ours.

So, if a person's OC is distracting another person's ability to worship God in His house, that is their problem? Really? A person's right to OC justifies disruption of the work of the Church? If the members are good with it, OK, but if they are not..... Just because it is legal doesn't always mean it is right, wise or considerate.