TexasCHLforum.com

canvasbck wrote: ... To answer the title question in the OP "How accurate is defense-accurate?":
I want my EQUIPMENT to be capable of making a single ragged hole at 15 yards. The only way to test the accuracy of my equipment is to take as much of "me" out of the equation as possible. Shoot from a bench, go very slow, let the shot surprise you, etc.

Once I have the equipment that can perform without "me", now training to be "defense accurate" is all about me, I have eliminated inaccuracy of the equipment from the equation. From your posts it seems that you are possibly trying to evaluate the equipment in a manner that does not take human error out of the equation.

canvasbck said it better than I.

For hunting purposes, I have always considered my effective range to be the distance at which I can keep all six shots from a revolver on a six-inch pie plate. Not the same, of course, but I am certain that all my carry guns are more than accurate enough in and of themselves. Shooting from a rest I can ring steel at 100 yards with a Glock 23. The real question is how fast you can shoot accurately at defense distances, knowing that stress and speed can open a group into a pattern.

So I'd shoot a new gun from a rest at 25 yards. If the group looked "acceptable" (and that's in the eye of the beholder), I'd practice for accuracy and speed (in that order) from more reasonable defensive distances from concealed, holstered, and ready low positions.