TexasCHLforum.com

LedJedi wrote:

hi-power wrote: Before pbandjelly's head asplodes , his rhetorical question bears repeating:

pbandjelly wrote:regardless, the POINT I was trying to make in all this cluster bomb, is that you MAY be legally in the right, but will you be MORALLY in the right?

If it's a repeated event, I might just use DF to stop it if i'm legally justified in doing that.

I honestly wish i could find a more respectful way to phrase this. I thought about it for a few minutes, so keep that in mind. I apologize in advance if you take offense as that is in no way my intent.

"I'm not talking about morality. It's not for you to decide. I'm talking about what is justified by law. With respect, I just don't care what you think is morally right or wrong."

That being said, I do respect your opinion on the subject and I'm not in any way trying to be ugly, rude or disrespectful. Please understand that there's a difference between law and morality. We're asking about law.

But you have to remember that the law is gray. All of the law we've been discussing requires that the force you use has to be that which a "reasonable person" deems justified. In the end, the prosecutor and a jury get to decide what's reasonable...Not you. *If* they decide, that your action was so morally wrong that it simply wasn't a course of action that a reasonable person would take, you could meet every other requirement the law puts forth, and still go to prison for a very long time.

-Xander

LedJedi wrote: keying your car, certainly. I wonder about someone taking a baseball bat to your car though. In any case it would only be justified in the night time.

If they've already hit your car with the bat, then as I read it, you're no longer "preventing the imminent commission of..." but retaliating for, and not justified under the law.

LedJedi wrote: I find that rather odd. Why is there a distinction between day and night time crime?

As I heard it explained (and this was from another non-lawyer, so it may be complete and utter hogwash) the thought was that it's harder to know what you're dealing with in the nighttime. It's inherently more dangerous due to the fact that easier for you to be ambushed or attacked with weapons that may not necessarily be able to see due to the darkness.

LedJedi wrote: I also note that fleeing with the property is also justification, but I'm assuming that if no property is apparent you would not be justified.

That's what I'd assume as well.

Also, remember this thread. http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... php?t=8547

Even when you believe you're fully justified under the law, a prosecutor (and potentially even a jury) may not feel the same way.

-Xander

LedJedi wrote: 2) We were also discussing protection of property and there was some discussion of criminal mischief vs theft. Someone keying your car is I believe criminal mischief. Deadly force is not justified in that incident is it?

Well, the law says:

P.C. § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

IANAL, but given those restrictions, I think any prosecutor worth his salt could probably get you convicted on a murder charge if you decided to use deadly force against some kid that had just keyed your car.

-Xander