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- Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:28 am
- Forum: Other States
- Topic: Montana: 70 years for man who shot thief
- Replies: 30
- Views: 5690
Re: Montana: 70 years for man who shot thief
You're right, I was too sweeping with the term "use of force" but aye, trespass alone is definitely not a situation where you may use actual deadly force. I seem to recall a lawyer (from [Pre-paid legal service], in fact) advising that you could threaten to shoot (use of force) but not actually follow through on that threat. The recommendation was to not even do that, since you have backed yourself into a corner but rather wait for assistance. Of course, if it escalates beyond simple trespass into an attempted assault, well, different story.
- Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:03 pm
- Forum: Other States
- Topic: Montana: 70 years for man who shot thief
- Replies: 30
- Views: 5690
Re: Montana: 70 years for man who shot thief
FYI, in Texas detached garages do NOT count as a habitation. However if it is connected, at all, like in many duplexes, it is considered part of the same building and thus habitation if that other building is your domicile.
In the Montana case, this bloke had it coming, I am afraid. The original burglary was apparently some beers stolen from a fridge/cooler and was believed to be local youths (possibly including the German), the homeowner's response was inappropriate. All he needed to do was report the crime, look at whether he needed to more securely store his property or make his premises more secure and certainly would have been reasonable to increase his caution and perhaps even spend some time surveilling it. Instead, he made widely reported comments about wanting to kill the people responsible and words to the effect of 'next time I will kill them' and then proceeded to lie in wait before shooting without any provocation beyond trespass.
Even in Texas, mere trespass is not sufficient grounds for killing someone or indeed use of force at all, you must contact law enforcement and they will remove the trespasser(s) if they remain until officers arrive. Threats, assault, etc are different issues but even his own account is clear that he was not threatened, in fact he did not even give the trespasser opportunity to leave or surrender, he simply shot him multiple times with a shotgun, finally in the head. That's premeditated murder, ambush, and various other terms that may or may not apply in Montana.
In the Montana case, this bloke had it coming, I am afraid. The original burglary was apparently some beers stolen from a fridge/cooler and was believed to be local youths (possibly including the German), the homeowner's response was inappropriate. All he needed to do was report the crime, look at whether he needed to more securely store his property or make his premises more secure and certainly would have been reasonable to increase his caution and perhaps even spend some time surveilling it. Instead, he made widely reported comments about wanting to kill the people responsible and words to the effect of 'next time I will kill them' and then proceeded to lie in wait before shooting without any provocation beyond trespass.
Even in Texas, mere trespass is not sufficient grounds for killing someone or indeed use of force at all, you must contact law enforcement and they will remove the trespasser(s) if they remain until officers arrive. Threats, assault, etc are different issues but even his own account is clear that he was not threatened, in fact he did not even give the trespasser opportunity to leave or surrender, he simply shot him multiple times with a shotgun, finally in the head. That's premeditated murder, ambush, and various other terms that may or may not apply in Montana.