TexasCHLforum.com

amtank wrote:

TVegas wrote:

Scott Farkus wrote:

ispray wrote:OOOH, what a tangled web we weave! We have a lot of law, rules, regulations we don't like. We better obey or get involved and get it changed. How about a sign at a business entrance that says hoddies not allowed or no shoes, no shirts, no service. Maybe those aren't law but still, don't you think a business has the right to keep anyone out unless keeping them out would violate something else, example "whites only allowed here" or no "Muslims allowed"

Exactly - private businesses enjoy property rights unless it violates that "something else". And there are already thousands of "something elses" besides the two you mentioned, including the parking lot law which I assume most of us here support.

The question is not "should the government ever tell a private business what it can and cannot do?" That's already been asked and answered, for better or worse, with a resounding YES. The question is "what should go on that list of "something else"?" and I can't see how adding "no banning of licensed concealed carriers" is any more problematic or than 99.9% of the things already on the list, particularly since it would cost the business exactly no additional money, and neither the business owner or other customers would ever even know. Not to mention it's a constitutional right.

The problem is that the Supreme Court has not yet determined concealed carry to be a constitutional right. When that happens, everything will probably change.

My point is that concealed carry does not effect the property owner at all. If an individual decided to ignore the signs it's highly likely no one would ever know. The only "person" harmed is this legal fiction that of all the things a customer has on their person that one thing I don't want.

Scott Farkus wrote:

ispray wrote:OOOH, what a tangled web we weave! We have a lot of law, rules, regulations we don't like. We better obey or get involved and get it changed. How about a sign at a business entrance that says hoddies not allowed or no shoes, no shirts, no service. Maybe those aren't law but still, don't you think a business has the right to keep anyone out unless keeping them out would violate something else, example "whites only allowed here" or no "Muslims allowed"

Exactly - private businesses enjoy property rights unless it violates that "something else". And there are already thousands of "something elses" besides the two you mentioned, including the parking lot law which I assume most of us here support.

The question is not "should the government ever tell a private business what it can and cannot do?" That's already been asked and answered, for better or worse, with a resounding YES. The question is "what should go on that list of "something else"?" and I can't see how adding "no banning of licensed concealed carriers" is any more problematic or than 99.9% of the things already on the list, particularly since it would cost the business exactly no additional money, and neither the business owner or other customers would ever even know. Not to mention it's a constitutional right.

chuck j wrote:

koine2002 wrote:

Scott Farkus wrote:

chuck j wrote:Well looks like this is just ANOTHER repeat thread . Stripping away an individuals rights concerning their property has serious consequences . I'll not open that door and would defend that persons rights .

But those rights have already been "stripped away" as the OP noted. That ship has sailed, particularly as far as commercial businesses are concerned. No other group allows themselves to be discriminated against like gun owners. I'm increasingly baffled as to why we stand for it; nobody else does.

Do you oppose the parking lot bill? How is that not an infringement on an anti-gun parking lot owner's rights?

I've got a pretty consistent track record of voting/contending against ordinances, laws, and referendums that restrict property rights: whether they are public accommodation or not. I argued, in letter and vote, tooth and nail against the rezoning of Ross Avenue in Dallas forcing longstanding businesses out of their locations to other parts of town. I'm fine with a property owner saying "no" to me when I have my gun. It's his prerogative. I'll go somewhere else if I can. I'm fine with a property owner telling me that I can't preach on his property (1st amendment--both speech and free exercise). However, I'm not fine with an ordinance or law that tells me that I cannot do either irrespective of the wishes of the property owner (including that property owner being me or the church I pastor).

Our rights are negative rights: that is what congress (both federal and state legilatures after the 14th amendment) cannot, via legislation, prevent us from doing. They are not positive rights in the sense that congress is obligated to give people a platform to exercise those rights--or force individuals to provide such a platform. Nor are rights positive in the sense that congress has to provide each person with a gun. They just cannot prevent us (at least in writing) from bearing arms if we so choose to do. Unfortunately, the zeitgeist of the day is positive rights. We are told that rights are things we need to provide. What I won't stand for is allowing the revocation of life, liberty, or property by governing authorities without due process.

This post did not receive enough attention . You might take your time and read it again . Up to you . Many young folks will never enjoy the freedom I and older people have experienced , I am 63 years old. We find the politically correct atmosphere stifling , the lack of independence coupled with others inability to respect another's rights and prospective although that is their right in their pursuit of life , liberty and happiness . Instead they must conform although the 'offending' person means no harm to anyone . Heavy stuff , might want to study a little history , talk to your elders [dang ! That ought to galled you . ), you might find some interesting bits of being a individual , being self sufficient , taking pride in your decisions , admitting and correcting your failures . The LORD knows I have .

Dwell on it , study on it and then if you want just attempt to tear me down ............I will not go away . But i will attempt to RESPECT ( remember respect) your right to YOUR opinion .
Thank you
Chuck J