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Excaliber wrote: ...
Keep in mind that this happened in what is probably the most dysfunctional city in America. Nothing works to the benefit of the public in DC.

VMI77 wrote: ......These kinds of police procedures seem to go hand-in-hand with aggressive anti-gun and anti-selfdefense political domains . I have to wonder why any cop would continue to work under policies that produce results like this?...?

seniorshooteress wrote:Maybe this just happens on tv on in the movies but I was under the impression all the LEO needed was to hear or see something (like a scream, body on floor) to have probable cause to go ahead and enter without having a warrant or getting permission.

Along these lines...one of the amicus briefs for the Heller case had a recent (i.e. last 20 years or so) history of the DC police department. Very scary stuff, especially in the 90s, if I remember correctly. They went on a diversity kick, which translated to accepting people with criminal records, and in some cases not bothering to run serious background checks on others. Of course this had predictable results. I doubt they have recovered from that yet. But what can one expect from a city that repeatedly elects people with records like Marion Barry?

Aside from all that, the point of the original post was that this was (a highly extreme) example of why you are ultimately responsible for your own safety and security, whether you like it or not and whether you are capable of it or not. I have no doubt that pretty much any other police officer in the country would try harder than the DC police, but if they don't, or they fail, not only do you suffer the consequences, but you cannot hold them legally responsible for that failure. An officer might suffer repercussions from his own department for failing to act more aggressively, but you (or your surviving family) as the victim are not owed any duty to be specifically protected, with very few exceptions.

Teamless wrote:

ELB wrote:the police have no duty to protect you,

... The cops are at the door and cant bust it down?

is this ONLY in DC? or is this standard practice everywhere?

If you are referring to getting a supervisor's authorization... I dunno. Our local cops do not seem to have this kind of problem -- I have seen them make entry when necessary without a lot of delay.

If you are referring to "...no duty to protect..;" yes that is pretty much standard. There is no constitutional duty for the police to protect you as an individual, with certain very limited exceptions. I believe most cops are motivated to do the best they can, but that is an internal moral imperative of the officer and his department, not a legal requirement.

If you have never read it, go check Warren v DC.

You can find more such cases at this link: http://forums.officer.com/forums/showth ... murders-ex" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are practical reasons for this, of course; there are not enough cops --- nor would we want so many--to provide protection for every individual citizen. You would practically need a cop standing next to you 24 hours a day to guarantee protection. However, the constitution recognizes this with the 2A. It is unfortunate that it took the SCOTUS far longer to recognize that self-defense is a fundamental right than it did to recognize that the police have no duty to individuals. It is even more unfortunate that NYC, Chicago, DC, and pretty much any city in California still do not recognize this. (Altho Chicago and DC lost the SCOTUS cases, they are obviously going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming, one case at a time, back within constitutional bounds).

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local ... 07119.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Short story: After recent police visits for noise, kid calls 911 saying man in apartment is stabbing mother and two male children (not his kids). Police arrive at door, apparently one kid is still on phone with 911 and officers can hear someone inside day "no, stop...," but police are not allowed to make entry without supervisor's permission. Sergeant arrives on scene, but still have to get captain's perimission. Captain authorizes entry -- but also has to authorize fire department to make scene to breach the door. Firefighters arrive, break down door, police and firefighters find dead mother, dead son, bleeding son, who dies later at hospital. Two year old girl (daughter of the man and the woman) unharmed. Man found in bathroom with minor self-inflicted wounds.

Time between officer arrival and permission to breach the door was 45 minutes. Took approximately another 10 minutes to get the fire department on scene and the door breached.

Surviving family suing DC for $60 million for wrongful death, but they will not succeed at trial. DC will probably settle for a much smaller amount to make them go away and shut up. There are at least a dozen SCOTUS, Court of Appeals, and state cases that all say, in various ways, the police have no duty to protect you, or even show up. One of the most infamous cases, of course, is Warren vs DC.

More background. This incident happened in March, but apparently the DC police were less than forthcoming about all the details.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arti ... se-is/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;