TexasCHLforum.com

Fine. Eliminate the CHL line. Run everyone through the metal detectors. There is no legal problem with that at all. And when you ring the metal detector, privacy goes right out the window. You now have given the officers a reason to suspect you have a weapon, and of course they are right. They can sort out the issue right then and there -- in fact, they have an obligation to sort it out -- and you won't have any more expectation of privacy or confidentiality than you would any where else that you came to the attention of the police.

There is nothihg illegal about the CHL line -- they can easily force everyone through the metal detectors and get the same result, only a LOT slower and more inconvenient for us CHL'ers. Comprehend this: they put the CHL line in as a favor to CHLs; go to the short line, show CHL, walk in. It is a good thing for us. They don't even check to see if you have a Cold Steel machete in your pocket. Yet here people are parsing words out of the statutes and inventing "secret identities" out of clauses irrelevent to this situation.

Many other state capitols are no where near this friendly to their CHLs. Many have had security checkpoints for ages, and they dang sure did not let armed CHL citizens in. Gunnies in other states are pointing to Texas and saying, "See -- Texas knows how to do this."

However, If we kick sand our legislators' faces over it, if we whine and complain and make a fool out of Wentworth and Perry and our other CHL friends, see how fast 30.06 signs go up on the whole building, since "governmental entities" meet there all the time. There will be plenty of other legislators and people on the security committee that will be happy to take something convenient away from the CHL community. Remember, they are already cranky about the Utah licence deal and you can expect to see some verbiage preventing Texas residents from using out of state licenses (and it will sail through the committees). Throw a fit over a non-issue like the CHL line, and it won't be any trouble for them to simplify their lives by adding the Capitol building to the list of places that CHLs can be prohibited -- just like court buildings. With exceptions for legislators, just like there are exceptions for judges and DAs.

I just ran across another account similar to mine at the blog The Lawdog Files (see comment posted by "Reub"). It tends to support my supposition that the business of checking the CHL against the DPS CHL database has kinks in it and is not fast enough yet. I think this is encouraging the officers to send people through the regular line since it is presumably faster, and hence the question about whether I was armed (the poster I referenced was also asked this). This needs to be worked out before they start getting large crowds again, it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to do this. One way to speed it up would be to drop the computer check altogether, of course...

Some details need to be worked, but the basic strategy is sound, and it supports the basic rights -- let the armed good guys in and keep the armed bad guys out -- instead of just banning guns altogether, which is pretty much the instinctive reaction of governments the world over. A line marked "CHL", especially one that is used by state employees and legislators and cops as well is not a big deal. The law says you can carry concealed, it doesn't guarantee "covert" carry.

stevie_d_64 wrote:...
Or maybe someone needs to tell me I am wrong on this, and tell me I am making a mountain out of a molehill...

Yes I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Within the constraints of having a CHL law at all, I think the legislature came up with an good solution. Frankly, far from trying to discourage CHLs and being armed, I think they went out of their way to come up with an armed CHL-friendly solution. They could have just hung a 30.06 sign on the whole dang building and been done with it, since there are governmental meetings going on a great deal of time anyway. (Altho the legislature as a whole is not in session, various committees are meeting and holding hearings in the "off-season;" I saw the calender of those meetings posted in the hallways.) Or at the next session just add the Capitol to the list of off-limits places, just like a court. Believe me, EITHER of those options would have be much more detrimental to gun owners in general and CHL in particular than having a separate line and asking me if I am armed.

To me it seemed that the cop simply wanted me to go thru the fastest way possible, as it appeared the scanning business wasn't operating as fast as they would like. They either need to improve their reader, their connection, or maybe just take the plastic at face value like most cops do. I suspect this is what will happen in the long run anway, after they have had time to get used to it, and as usual, "nothing happens" when you let armed CHL'ers run around. Which has been the case to date anyway, before the metal detectors.

Or the other possibility is the DPS has read about all the lobbyists saying they will get CHLs just to bypass the regular line when it gets long, without ever actually carrying, and maybe they see that as an abuse of the system; i.e. the line is set up to assist armed CHL'ers to gain entry, not for the convenience of 3000 lobbyists. Of course the lobbyists could lie about being armed, but even though it is probably not a crime to do so, I suspect most would be wary of (getting caught somehow) lying to a DPS trooper. I'll bet lobbyists are keenly protective about their reputations around the Capitol, and getting caught lying to the security force would probably not enhance their reps with anyone.

Would I like Texas law to reflect that citizens not convicted of violent crime should be able to CC or OC without a permit from the state? Sure. But the CHL line at the Capitol is not the place to fall on your sword about gun rights.

UpTheIrons wrote:Great report, but you forgot one important question...

I didn't forget -- I just didn't think of it, since I don't have kids. Dunno answer.

C-dub wrote:Very interesting. Thanks for the report ELB. I wonder what swiping the license tells them? I would think that if something wasn't up to snuff then the license would have been revoked. Might they be checking to make sure it is not a fake?

Mr. Cotton noted in another thread that they are checking the license against the Texas DPS database to make sure it is current/valid. I suspect a revocation probably takes awhile. It occurs to me I should have asked him what he would have done if I had had a Texas-recognized license from out of state, since that can't be validated against the DPS database.

I was in Austin today for other things, so I decided to stop by the Capitol building and see the new CHL lanes in person. I had not yet been to the Capitol yet anyway, so figured it being the off-season, it wouldn't be crowded and I could wander around and gawk like a tourist without disruption by people trying to get things done.

I found an open metered space on Brazos street between the TWC buildings (which led me to wonder -- why does the TWC need two huge buildings right in front of -- or maybe it is back of -- the capitol ) and hiked up past the Peace Officers Memorial which took me in the north entrance. DPS officers outnumbered visitors -- there were about five or six of them, and just me and my wife. I think one other person walked in while we were talking with the cops and went through the metal detector. Nice quiet day.

Sure enough, there was a CHL sign to one side, so we went up a DPS guy CHL in hand, and he immediately surprised me by saying, "Do you have it on you?" I did and I said so. He said OK and handed my CHL to another trooper (actually I didn't read their shoulder patches but they dress like troopers). I had to suppress a giggle because it took him about 10 seconds to get the laptop computer open -- I guess this is new enough that not everyone has the routine down just yet. I didn't actually see him "swipe" my card because I was busy talking with the first guy --- I got the impression he tried, and then typed in some info. Guess he has my luck with card swipes.

While he was doing that I asked the first guy why it made a difference if I had my gun on me or not. He said if I didn't, he would send me over to the regular line because it would be faster, otherwise they have to check the licenses to make sure everything is up to snuff. This surprised me some more. While I was pondering this, the second trooper gave me my CHL back and took my wife's. It appeared to me that he also typed in some of her info as well, waited a few seconds, then handed it back and we were free to go in.

Based on this one entry, I am guessing that the swiping business may not be working out so well, and they are having type in either the number and/or name alot, which is naturally slower. If I don't have a gun on me, then I can go thru the regular line, which is faster --- for the guy typing in the info at least. Not sure it would be faster for me, since I'll bet my keys, knife, coins, beltbuckle, and all that would set off the alarm.

I wonder if all those lobbyists who are planning on getting a CHL but not carrying are in for a surprise when it comes to bypassing the regular line?

Had a nice self-guided tour of the Capitol building. The House chamber is closed for renovations, but the Senate chamber is open, and it was interesting to see the pix of the previous legislatures, and the two HUGE murals of the battles of the Alamo and San Jacinto. I was also interested in the portraits of all the previous Governors and Presidents that line the rotunda. It is a very nice building, impressive but not gaudy. The grounds are immaculate. Will go back for a guided tour some time, and see a few other sights.