TexasCHLforum.com

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

TXBO wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

TXBO wrote:

mojo84 wrote: Just because it is a different approach doesn't mean it is effective. Cooperation, or at least not acting like extremist lunatics, would be better than throwing temper tantrums in public like a 5 year old wanting more ice cream and wanting it NOW.

Very true and all indications are that their approach was not only ineffective but detrimental. I'm neither endorsing nor defending their approach. I'm simply stating that frustration with lack of progress in Austin feed it.

I agree with you on this point, but we need to realize that OCT was created 1) because people were upset that Grisham was arrested; and 2) the alleged lack of progress was limited to not passing open-carry. We have made tremendous progress in expanding Second Amendment rights in Texas as the vast majority of Texas gun owners understand and acknowledge. Only a self-centered few claim otherwise and it's solely because their particular priority item or goal has not been achieved. Contrast the tactics and divisive rhetoric used by OCT with the statesmanlike approach used by Students for Concealed Carry. SCC does not attack other people or organizations and they don't act like the failure to pass campus-carry means Texas and all of our elected officials are anti-gun.

Chas.

My priority is accessibility. I'd like to see the number of people that can legally carry in Texas multiply. This stems from a very personally humbling experience. It's not self-centered at all.

I'm not sure why you say "it's not self-centered at all." I was talking about OCT's attitude that little progress has been made in terms of expanding Second Amendment rights in Texas. If that's your feeling also, then you're as wrong as is OCT and your personal problem doesn't change legislative history.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

TXBO wrote:

mojo84 wrote: Just because it is a different approach doesn't mean it is effective. Cooperation, or at least not acting like extremist lunatics, would be better than throwing temper tantrums in public like a 5 year old wanting more ice cream and wanting it NOW.

Very true and all indications are that their approach was not only ineffective but detrimental. I'm neither endorsing nor defending their approach. I'm simply stating that frustration with lack of progress in Austin feed it.

I agree with you on this point, but we need to realize that OCT was created 1) because people were upset that Grisham was arrested; and 2) the alleged lack of progress was limited to not passing open-carry. We have made tremendous progress in expanding Second Amendment rights in Texas as the vast majority of Texas gun owners understand and acknowledge. Only a self-centered few claim otherwise and it's solely because their particular priority item or goal has not been achieved. Contrast the tactics and divisive rhetoric used by OCT with the statesmanlike approach used by Students for Concealed Carry. SCC does not attack other people or organizations and they don't act like the failure to pass campus-carry means Texas and all of our elected officials are anti-gun.

Chas.

anygunanywhere wrote:

TXBO wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote: Since you state that you disagree with both OTC and NRA what exactly is your strategy?

When did I ever say that I disagreed with the NRA? "I am the NRA". Proud 30 year Life member+.

TXBO wrote:
Are you suggesting that all 2nd Amendment grassroots efforts need to cooperate with NRA in this country?

From this post. The single most important issue with the pro 2A pro gun community is the dissension and infighting that exists. There is an extreme difference in understanding the right and wrong way to accomplish our goals. If you examine the antis and the way they work it is almost a totally orchestrated plan to do away with our freedom.

Not all persons nor organizations will ever be in total agreement but exposing our dirty laundry for the antis to use against us and our goal is the very reason OCT and their like minded brethren are far from being on our side.

I too am a 30 year life NRA member. No I don't agree with everything the NRA does, but they are the 800 lb gorilla to the antis and it would serve our cause better if the rest of the freedom loving 2A community would stop soiling their sleeping quarters and get on the right course.

You keep speaking about frustration with what is coming out of Austin. What are your proposed solutions??

anygunanywhere wrote: Since you state that you disagree with both OTC and NRA what exactly is your strategy?

mojo84 wrote: Just because it is a different approach doesn't mean it is effective. Cooperation, or at least not acting like extremist lunatics, would be better than throwing temper tantrums in public like a 5 year old wanting more ice cream and wanting it NOW.

mojo84 wrote:

TXBO wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

TXBO wrote:

Paragrouper wrote:

amtank wrote:Disclaimer: I am a former active member of OCTC. I was at the time of the 2014 state convention. I am a current regional co-coordinator for OCT. I hold a Texas CHL. I am a member of the TSRA If you missed that above. I am even a member of the Texas State Militia. I am a Constitutional Conservative who is involved in multiple causes beyond guns. I also have four legislators personal cell numbers in my phone and another three chiefs of staff. I have been known from time to time go for a walk with a rifle or shotgun.

For all your credentials, one thing you do not possess is my support.

Perhaps you should try working with other organizations to achieve our common goals. The antics your organization pulls does not help further the cause of 2A; they just create more enemies. There's enough divisiveness in our country as it is.

Why don't you guys try cooperating instead?

Cooperate with whom?

People that understand how to get things done and have a track record of doing so.

Are you suggesting that all 2nd Amendment grassroots efforts need to cooperate with NRA in this country?

I'm suggesting it would be much more productive than fighting with them, especially in the public eye.

Ruark wrote:

TXBO wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

TXBO wrote:

Paragrouper wrote:

amtank wrote:Disclaimer: I am a former active member of OCTC. I was at the time of the 2014 state convention. I am a current regional co-coordinator for OCT. I hold a Texas CHL. I am a member of the TSRA If you missed that above. I am even a member of the Texas State Militia. I am a Constitutional Conservative who is involved in multiple causes beyond guns. I also have four legislators personal cell numbers in my phone and another three chiefs of staff. I have been known from time to time go for a walk with a rifle or shotgun.

For all your credentials, one thing you do not possess is my support.

Perhaps you should try working with other organizations to achieve our common goals. The antics your organization pulls does not help further the cause of 2A; they just create more enemies. There's enough divisiveness in our country as it is.

Why don't you guys try cooperating instead?

Cooperate with whom?

People that understand how to get things done and have a track record of doing so.

Are you suggesting that all 2nd Amendment grassroots efforts need to cooperate with NRA in this country?

Go to your dictionary and look up "non-sequitur."

mojo84 wrote:

TXBO wrote:

Paragrouper wrote:

amtank wrote:Disclaimer: I am a former active member of OCTC. I was at the time of the 2014 state convention. I am a current regional co-coordinator for OCT. I hold a Texas CHL. I am a member of the TSRA If you missed that above. I am even a member of the Texas State Militia. I am a Constitutional Conservative who is involved in multiple causes beyond guns. I also have four legislators personal cell numbers in my phone and another three chiefs of staff. I have been known from time to time go for a walk with a rifle or shotgun.

For all your credentials, one thing you do not possess is my support.

Perhaps you should try working with other organizations to achieve our common goals. The antics your organization pulls does not help further the cause of 2A; they just create more enemies. There's enough divisiveness in our country as it is.

Why don't you guys try cooperating instead?

Cooperate with whom?

People that understand how to get things done and have a track record of doing so.

Paragrouper wrote:

amtank wrote:Disclaimer: I am a former active member of OCTC. I was at the time of the 2014 state convention. I am a current regional co-coordinator for OCT. I hold a Texas CHL. I am a member of the TSRA If you missed that above. I am even a member of the Texas State Militia. I am a Constitutional Conservative who is involved in multiple causes beyond guns. I also have four legislators personal cell numbers in my phone and another three chiefs of staff. I have been known from time to time go for a walk with a rifle or shotgun.

For all your credentials, one thing you do not possess is my support.

Perhaps you should try working with other organizations to achieve our common goals. The antics your organization pulls does not help further the cause of 2A; they just create more enemies. There's enough divisiveness in our country as it is.

Why don't you guys try cooperating instead?

ScooterSissy wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Charles, I don't mean to make this sound obsequious or fawning, but I literally thank God that we in Texas still have statesmen like you working behind the scenes for our interests. That was quite a read you just posted.

I'll pile on with that one. I have to admit, I've never joined the NRA. What I've learned about gun rights on this forum, and the knowledge of who is behind it, is beginning to make me rethink that.

joelamosobadiah wrote:

TXBO wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Politics has been called "the art of the possible." Unlicensed carrying of handguns will not be possible so long as OCT continues in existence and continues its counterproductive tactics. That's a fact that some are unwilling to accept, but it is nonetheless true.

Chas.

Merriam defines politic as "shrewdly tactful". It's quite obvious many weren't. However, politicians denying millions for the sins of hundreds is very disheartening.

Additionally, as stated before, unlicensed carry is not the only thing that could increase accessibility. Lowered cost, less requirements and simplicity could do wonders.

And none of those items would affect me in the slightest because I'm the face of concealed carry in Texas....... A financially sound, white boy.

An you wonder why your approach doesn't work... Oh nevermind, you think it does work.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Politics has been called "the art of the possible." Unlicensed carrying of handguns will not be possible so long as OCT continues in existence and continues its counterproductive tactics. That's a fact that some are unwilling to accept, but it is nonetheless true.

Chas.

mojo84 wrote:

TXBO wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: ... We've passed many great bills and have made great strides in expanding Second Amendment rights, but I believe that HB308 should have been the cornerstone of the 2015 Texas Legislative Session -- but it wasn't. I'm mad and I'm sick that HB308 went nowhere; it is no better off than HB195 or SB342 and I'm not happy. However, I understand why neither the NRA nor TSRA put their political muscle behind HB308. To say it was a controversial bill would be an understatement. The media would have had a field day with "guns everywhere, guns everywhere!" It's right up there with "the British are coming, the British are coming!" The primary reason HB308 was not a priority bill is NRA and TSRA were using huge amounts of political capitol to pass open-carry and to a lesser degree, campus-carry. I still believe we should pass campus-carry because it is the right thing to do even though it differs from our standard procedure of supporting bills that provide the most benefits to most people. At this point in time, HB308 would have worked to the extreme benefit of 846,000+ Texas CHLs and this number will continue to grow. That's how strongly I feel about removing off-limits areas for CHLs, but you haven't heard me lash out at NRA/TSRA for not making MY priority their priority. That's not how you bill strong and effective relationships; you don't abandon friends who share your goals but not your priority list. Contrast this approach with the OCT approach of attacking, condemning and lying about anyone and everyone who does not share both their goals and there tactics.

Chas.

I believe your philosophy of "supporting bills that provide the most benefit to most people" is an admirable approach. I would personally benefit from being able to carry more places but I would argue that only having 846k+ people in Texas that can legally carry is disappointing. I'd like it to be a priority to see that number multiply.

I suspect that is the ultimate goal for many. However, we have to work with the process available and that involves making incremental improvements as we can. Trying for the whole enchilada this go around would have killed the deal all together.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: ... We've passed many great bills and have made great strides in expanding Second Amendment rights, but I believe that HB308 should have been the cornerstone of the 2015 Texas Legislative Session -- but it wasn't. I'm mad and I'm sick that HB308 went nowhere; it is no better off than HB195 or SB342 and I'm not happy. However, I understand why neither the NRA nor TSRA put their political muscle behind HB308. To say it was a controversial bill would be an understatement. The media would have had a field day with "guns everywhere, guns everywhere!" It's right up there with "the British are coming, the British are coming!" The primary reason HB308 was not a priority bill is NRA and TSRA were using huge amounts of political capitol to pass open-carry and to a lesser degree, campus-carry. I still believe we should pass campus-carry because it is the right thing to do even though it differs from our standard procedure of supporting bills that provide the most benefits to most people. At this point in time, HB308 would have worked to the extreme benefit of 846,000+ Texas CHLs and this number will continue to grow. That's how strongly I feel about removing off-limits areas for CHLs, but you haven't heard me lash out at NRA/TSRA for not making MY priority their priority. That's not how you bill strong and effective relationships; you don't abandon friends who share your goals but not your priority list. Contrast this approach with the OCT approach of attacking, condemning and lying about anyone and everyone who does not share both their goals and there tactics.

Chas.