TexasCHLforum.com

rm9792 wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Liberty wrote:

cyphertext wrote:
I was taught the same when I worked on the other side of the gun counter. All of those on here who say they paid but their daughter / son / whoever filled out the paperwork would not have been sold a gun by me, even if I believed them or knew them... one person paying with a different person filling out the paperwork is one of the signs of a straw purchase.

I was purchasing a couple of long guns at Acadamy a few months ago my wife was leaning over my shoulder and ensuring that I was filling out the form accurately and legibly. We were warned by the salesperson that if she continued to help me fill out the form that he would cancel the sale. Sheesh, as my wife, legally it's her money and her gun too.

Yep... that is how the feds see it. You are the buyer, you are the one filling out the form. Have a question, read the back of the form for directions.

As far as the feds see it, it is not your wife's gun legally... let's say your wife was a restricted person because of a felony conviction. Under federal law, you may still own a gun. It is yours, not your wife's. You will have to take steps to insure that she does not have access or possession of it though.

No form to read instructions from. Its on an Ipad or laptop now in a lot of places.

The instructions are still available for you to read on that ipad or laptop...

TVGuy wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

TVGuy wrote:
I've actually heard the exact opposite when buying guns with my wife due to community property laws.

Even with community property laws, the firearm is being transferred to one person by the licensed dealer. When selling to a business entity, one person acting on behalf of that business completes the 4473 with their personal info and then provides an addendum stating that the firearm is being purchased for use by the business entity. The 4473 does not transfer the firearm to multiple parties.

Every other Friday my company transfers a sum of money to me and only me. The moment it hits my account, it is equally my wife's by law.

More to my point - If I go to a gun dealer and fill out the 4473 for a gun I'm going to take possession of, why can't my wife (I'm only speaking about such a relationship, not a friend or other relative) pay with her debit card. Technically that money in he account is equally mine.

I'm the FFL... you come into my store to buy a firearm. I don't know you from Adam. I have no way of knowing it is your wife. Could be your sister. Could be a friend from down the street... the feds don't have a process for an FFL to follow to determine the validity of your claim that it is your spouse and it is a joint account. So the way the training goes is if you fill out the paperwork, the debit card needs to come from your wallet, not your wife's purse.

It really puts the FFL in a bad position, as the customers don't understand, and it isn't equally enforced from one store to another. Academy takes a very hard line where they will stop the sale for anything that could appear to be a straw purchase. I never saw it personally, but I heard tales of ATF sting operations where they would come in and set up a scenario to see if the store allowed the transfer.

TVGuy wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Liberty wrote:

cyphertext wrote:
I was taught the same when I worked on the other side of the gun counter. All of those on here who say they paid but their daughter / son / whoever filled out the paperwork would not have been sold a gun by me, even if I believed them or knew them... one person paying with a different person filling out the paperwork is one of the signs of a straw purchase.

I was purchasing a couple of long guns at Acadamy a few months ago my wife was leaning over my shoulder and ensuring that I was filling out the form accurately and legibly. We were warned by the salesperson that if she continued to help me fill out the form that he would cancel the sale. Sheesh, as my wife, legally it's her money and her gun too.

Yep... that is how the feds see it. You are the buyer, you are the one filling out the form. Have a question, read the back of the form for directions.

As far as the feds see it, it is not your wife's gun legally... let's say your wife was a restricted person because of a felony conviction. Under federal law, you may still own a gun. It is yours, not your wife's. You will have to take steps to insure that she does not have access or possession of it though.

I've actually heard the exact opposite when buying guns with my wife due to community property laws.

Even with community property laws, the firearm is being transferred to one person by the licensed dealer. When selling to a business entity, one person acting on behalf of that business completes the 4473 with their personal info and then provides an addendum stating that the firearm is being purchased for use by the business entity. The 4473 does not transfer the firearm to multiple parties.

Liberty wrote:

cyphertext wrote:
I was taught the same when I worked on the other side of the gun counter. All of those on here who say they paid but their daughter / son / whoever filled out the paperwork would not have been sold a gun by me, even if I believed them or knew them... one person paying with a different person filling out the paperwork is one of the signs of a straw purchase.

I was purchasing a couple of long guns at Acadamy a few months ago my wife was leaning over my shoulder and ensuring that I was filling out the form accurately and legibly. We were warned by the salesperson that if she continued to help me fill out the form that he would cancel the sale. Sheesh, as my wife, legally it's her money and her gun too.

Yep... that is how the feds see it. You are the buyer, you are the one filling out the form. Have a question, read the back of the form for directions.

As far as the feds see it, it is not your wife's gun legally... let's say your wife was a restricted person because of a felony conviction. Under federal law, you may still own a gun. It is yours, not your wife's. You will have to take steps to insure that she does not have access or possession of it though.

bmwrdr wrote:

rotor wrote:

bmwrdr wrote:I would not buy a gun for somebody else with my name on the FFL transfer form. There is one question on the form which is worded like "do you buy the gun for yourself" which I answer with yes.
I agree with other forum members to pay for it but the firearm transfer has to be in the new owners name simply to abide the law and avoid any possible complications.
Selling a firearm I owned for a period of time is a different story but I would ask for a CHL/ LTC or if I know the buyer very well.

If you look at the back of the 4473

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer:
For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or
otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm

So, you are perfectly legal buying this as a gift if a 4473 is needed. No 4473 if buying from a private party.

That's right but I still would not go that route.

Why would you not follow the law and try to make the process more complicated? I swear gun owners are our own worst enemies when it comes to things like this... just read and follow the law!

Maxwell wrote:Not quite Wysiwyg101. The operative term, as I remember from when I was selling firearms, is "Are you the actual transferee/buyer..." If he is not paying for the firearm he is not the buyer. Contrary to what has been said here, I was taught that the person paying has to fill out the 4473. I'm not saying this is correct, it's just what I was taught. I've even had to have the payer fill out the form when I knew he was giving the gun to the person next to him (DPS officers). Knowing it was a gift made it completely legal. Having someone pay for a gun someone else is filling out the form for was not allowed, even if I knew it was above board. If audited by the BATF I could not legally correlate one person's payment with another's 4473 form.

I was taught the same when I worked on the other side of the gun counter. All of those on here who say they paid but their daughter / son / whoever filled out the paperwork would not have been sold a gun by me, even if I believed them or knew them... one person paying with a different person filling out the paperwork is one of the signs of a straw purchase.