casp625 wrote:loren wrote:Ahh, the real question I'm raising is: what does the Texas law really mean? There is no question about the merits of Honorable vs General discharges - never was. The question is what is actually intended by the Texas law makers when they use the term "honorably discharged" instead of "Honorable Discharge". Think about it. I don't really care about the license fee discount but after 58 years, learning that Texas CHL licensing thinks I was NOT honorably discharged is a little annoying when my DD-214 clearly says: separated under HONORABLE conditions.
Here is a good write-up about the types of discharges, courtesy of
The Fort Hood Sentinel:
In general, there are five different types of discharges from the Army: Honorable; General, Under Honorable Conditions; Under Other than Honorable Conditions; Bad Conduct; and Dishonorable. The latter two may only be adjudged as a consequence of either a special or general court-martial conviction pursuant to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Each of these discharges carries a different meaning and can seriously affect veterans’ benefits and employment after service.
Of the five types of discharges, three are available to Soldiers when they are discharged administratively: Honorable, General Under Honorable Conditions, and Under Other than Honorable Conditions.
If you did not receive an Honorable Discharge, then you were not discharge honorably... it was a General with some honorable
conditions (read, honorable conditions outweighed the negatives). Now we can dig a little further into the Texas code. According to
Texas DPS, you should be able to receive a "Veteran" designation on your driver's license because your DD-214 "must show that the veteran received an honorable discharge or a general discharge (under honorable conditions)."
Now for the CHL portion.
Veteran (Honorably Discharged) is governed under Texas Government Code:
Sec. 411.174 APPLICATION:
(9)
(b-1) The application must provide space for the applicant to:
(1) list any military service that may qualify the applicant to receive a license with a veteran's designation under Section 411.179(e); and
(2) include proof required by the department to determine the applicant's eligibility to receive that designation.
Sec. 411.179 FORM OF LICENSE:
(e) In this subsection, "veteran" has the meaning assigned by Section 411.1951. The department shall include the designation "VETERAN" on the face of any original, duplicate, modified, or renewed license under this subchapter or on the reverse side of the license, as determined by the department, if the license is issued to a veteran who:
(1) requests the designation; and
(2) provides proof sufficient to the department of the veteran's military service and honorable discharge.
Sec. 411.1951 WAIVER OR REDUCTION OF FEES FOR MEMBERS OR VETERANS OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES:
(a) In this section, "veteran" means a person who:
(1) has served in:
(A) the army, navy, air force, coast guard, or marine corps of the United States;
(B) the Texas military forces as defined by Section 437.001; or
(C) an auxiliary service of one of those branches of the armed forces; and
(2) has been honorably discharged from the branch of the service in which the person served.
If we look at 411.179 we see it specify "honorable discharge." But wait, if we argue the definition of 411.1951, we once again see "honorably discharged." So now we are trying to redefine the meaning of the word "discharge" because a General (with conditions being honorable) still does not equal an Honorable Discharge. But just to prove the Texas DPS and lawmakers know exactly what they are talking about, let's take a look at Sec. 411.172
Sec. 411.172. ELIGIBILITY:
(g) Notwithstanding Subsection (a)(2), a person who is at least 18 years of age but not yet 21 years of age is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a member or veteran of the United States armed forces, including a member or veteran of the reserves or national guard;
(2) was discharged under honorable conditions, if discharged from the United States armed forces, reserves, or national guard; and
(3) meets the other eligibility requirements of Subsection (a) except for the minimum age required by federal law to purchase a handgun.
Now we can see 2 different sections that directly address "Honorable Discharge" (Sec 411.1951) and "Honorable Conditions" (Sec 411.172). IANAL, but I'd place my best guess that you can get a Veteran designation on your driver's license, would be eligible for a CHL if you were between 18-21 with a General under Honorable Conditions, are not qualified for a reduced fee. If anyone else would look to provide an interpretation, please do.
