TexasCHLforum.com

The Annoyed Man wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Supid, Stupid, STUPID! What is WRONG with these people that they can't wake up and get a clue?

My guess is that we're busy dividing up into "us" versus "them". Anything that "they" do is wrong. Anything "they" do is stupid.
IF you're an OC demonstrator you:
1) Are stupid.
2) Don't support concealed carry.
3) Are helping support anti-firearm factions via public confrontation.

My guess is that if we weren't so "us vs them" we might make some progress. I believe there are some moderate OC advocates out there and some that understand why carrying an AR-15 at Starbucks isn't going to win friends and influence people in the right direction.

I'm not sure how you'd illustrate, maybe by associating confrontational tactics with downstream legislation attempts... And by confrontational, I don't mean peacefully assembled, permitted (if required), constitutional speech in an area where you'd expect to see such demonstrations.

Rather than calling them stupid and drawing lines, why not engage in a little conversation?
And sure, there are those that will be fringe and won't compromise one bit, but they're not the majority... They are the guys that you're noticing - the guys that are causing you to select a "side" on this issue, when there really is a vast amount of common ground...

And then there is that solution we don't want to talk about. Brand me anti-gun (I've been called worse here), but if we don't want to see AR-15s in public places, maybe we should change the law? That would certainly clear the issue up.

I am on record as an OC supporter many times over. I go further and advocate for Constitutional Carry. This has been my record or years now. I have nothing to apologize for in this regard. When I have, respectfully, suggested over the years on various forums that confrontational tactics are counterproductive to the advancement of our gun rights, I have been called "anti-gun", "anti-2nd Amendment", and "un-American". To heck with them. They ARE stupid. There are none so blind as those who are willfully so.

Open Carry Texas was founded and continues to be lead by a person who has a LONG history of tangling with authority, making death threats against people, dereliction of duty while in the military, documented psychiatric issues, and claimed PTSD (from someone who rarely if ever went outside the wire according to on-scene observers). The reverence in the voices of his acolytes when they refer to CJ Grisham as "our Founder" is almost cultic. You'd think they were talking about Thomas Jefferson. Take a moment to read his Bronze Star citation. It is noticeably short on specifics, and speculation is that it was a favor from a "godfather" higher up his chain of command, but to his initiates, it legitimizes every pearl of "wisdom" which drips from his lips. To them, he is hero of the faith and can do no wrong.

cb1000rider, you are one for always challenging the rest of us to do our due diligence before posting anything. I am challenging you to do the same with CJ Grisham. Thoroughly vet his background, then come back and tell me if you think this man should be leading a statewide open carry advocacy group, in what is a politically perilous time.

I would not have a problem in general with a statewide open carry advocacy group; just not this group, led by this Self-aggrandizing buffoon. This is not about me engaging in the politics of personal destruction, this is about a healthy skepticism when choosing who will lead such an important movement. Too many OC Texas members buy into Grisham's self-created mythology with FAR less questioning than they reserved for Obama's birth certificate. Why? Because they choose the siren song of instant gratification over the kind of long ball wisdom that will actually work. In so doing, they risk more than just killing the passage of handgun open carry........they in fact risk the loss of long gun open carry, and a drastic change to signage requirements that will negatively impact concealed carry.

How stupid is that? I'll tell you.... it's REALLY stupid.

You say that I am allowing myself to be part of dividing and conquering the gun rights movement. I say that I am refusing to be buffaloed into supporting a group who will do more harm than good to the movement because it is lead by a firebrand with a disturbing past, who is leading a fair number of people who lack any sense of self-examination and healthy skepticism. That probably doesn't describe ALL of the members, but it describes enough of them that, when combined with the names I have been called, I don't want any part of the stain of that association upon my own character.

I will continue to support and argue for passage of OC and Constitutional Carry, but through other means than that group....means which are more likely to profile long term positive and tangible results. OC Texas has lost me until they get someone with a sober mindset to lead it in a sober and thoughtful direction.

Again, I urge you to do your due diligence.

Jaguar wrote:30.06 signs have to be big and properly worded because the penalty for disregarding them is so large, i.e. $4,000.00 fine and 1 year in jail plus loss of CHL. Now if the requirements are changed and any little sticker makes it a Class A, CHL will basically be gone in Texas and only good for carrying out of state.

If they do change the sign requirements they should make the violation a Class C misdemeanor with a $10 fine for each violation. That would make it fair once again. Of course I would rather see them keep the current sign and still lower the penalty.

I am pretty sure a "No Shirts, No Shoes" violation does not carry such harsh penalties.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:It's most unfortunate that recent events have brought the TPC §30.06 sign requirement to the forefront. Previously, there was no push to repeal TPC §30.06 and no organizations calling for a change. Collateral damage is just as much of a risk in the political arena as it is on the battlefield.

Chas.

Charles is absolutely right. Supposedly pro-gun people, acting in all the wrong ways for all the right reasons, are shooting the gun-rights movement in the foot.

1. Outraged CHLs informing business owners that their signs are invalid and carrying out letter campaigns full of "I'll show you" rhetoric. When, oh WHEN will people learn to shut the heck up, stuff their outrage, and just carry past those invalid signs as if they didn't exist? Does anyone think that the woman in the OP's article would be aware of the Big Ugly Sign requirements if some well-meaning idiot with a CHL hadn't taken a minute to educate somebody? Here's a CLUE people.....BUY it....Gun-grabbers do opposition research. Texas3006.com flew under the radar for years until oppo research twigged gun-grabbers to the fact that CHLs were taking advantage of improper signs. This push to "simplify" signage requirements is a direct product of CHLs shooting their mouths off.
2. Long gun OC demonstrations scaring the crap out of fence-sitters and those that previously never gave it a thought while trying to convince them to support open carry of handguns. IT DOES NOT MATTER that we know that our scary black rifles are not true assault rifles, to the uninformed, our rifles look exactly like the ones they see soldiers and marines carrying in Afghanistan on the news nearly every day. IT DOES NOT MATTER that it is unloaded and slung over my shoulder. To them, it is a scary black rifle, and they don't understand why I would want to carry one around. To the uninitiated, my AR15 IS and assault rifle, no matter how wrong they might be about it, and their noses were not being rubbed in FEAR they feel about scary black rifles until protesters started open carrying them.

PEOPLE! The "victims" on the receiving end of these things VOTE!!!!!! They WILL pressure their representatives to make it stop, by:

1. Urging their representatives to simplify signage requirements, making it easier to keep ALL gun carriers out of their businesses.
2. Urging their representatives to pass laws illegalizing the (currently legal) open carry of long guns, and to vote against handgun open carry when it comes up for a vote.

There is no room for firebrands in the preservation of the 2nd Amendment.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:They won't be successful in repealing TPC §30.06, but they will likely be able to find someone to file such a bill. Then we'll have to expend political capital to defeat it.
Very few elected officials were here in the 1995 - 1997 time frame and understand why TPC §30.06 was created and the purpose for its express provisions. That will make it more difficult to kill a bill that attempts to repeal or amend §30.06's critical protection for CHLs.

It's most unfortunate that recent events have brought the TPC §30.06 sign requirement to the forefront. Previously, there was no push to repeal TPC §30.06 and no organizations calling for a change. Collateral damage is just as much of a risk in the political arena as it is on the battlefield.

Chas.