TexasCHLforum.com

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

CleverNickname wrote:

Alf wrote:I like no fees for Texas residents but I don't know a good reason Texas taxpayers should subsidize licenses for nonresidents.

Would you agree that more people carrying is a good thing in general? If so, why would you want to discourage this?

It's probably a moot point anyways, because I don't think many people get non-resident Texas licenses, when something like a Florida license is easier to get (not having to travel to Texas to take a class).

If the non-resident Texas LTC was free, that might increase the number of people opting for Texas over Florida (or other options). That said, I agree that more people with LTC's, even non-residents, is a good thing. If we want to target taxes just to folks from out of state, there are plenty of ways to do that. How about only charging sales tax to non-residents? If you show a Texas ID, you don't pay sales tax. Or increase hotel taxes, etc., etc.

Not to mention that in order to get a non-resident license here, you have to travel to the state to do so. That brings out-of-state money into the state in the form of hotel, food, entertainment, etc. that the out-of-state resident will need while in Texas. It may not be a $1 for $1 compared to spending $140 on a state license fee, but it's hardly putting the entire burden on the State to support these visitors' LTC costs.

vjallen75 wrote:

mr1337 wrote:You'd be surprised on how much people can put off something based on the price. $140 is a pretty big chunk of change for most people. Eliminating the fee will eliminate one big reason that people don't end up getting it.

Of course, those serious about self defense would still get it regardless of price (within reason), but what I'm thinking about are people who are interested in getting started in their personal protection. It tears down a rather large barrier to entry that will make it easier to expand the types of people that apply for their LTC.

I think what he is trying to say is that removing the fees would not cause a steady impact on applications being submitted. I tend to agree with Skiprr on this one, overall. I do think there would be an initial serge of people who have not done an LTC course and submitted to a BG check and fingerprinting. There are a few people I know who haven't done so because of the fees. All in all, if there is a will there is a way. I made sure I found the funds to submit my application while my wife knew she wouldn't carry all the time so she decided against submitting an app. She will eventually but she's not ready to carry, but if the legislature is successful in the removal off fees she would surely at least get the LTC.

Agreed, but I still think the overall result, even when the dust settles, will be more people obtaining their LTC than would have otherwise with a $140 fee.

Skiprr wrote:The guy who already owns a handgun but who just hasn't gotten around to getting his LTC only because of $140...trust me, he ain't in your sustainable business model.

You'd be surprised on how much people can put off something based on the price. $140 is a pretty big chunk of change for most people. Eliminating the fee will eliminate one big reason that people don't end up getting it.

Of course, those serious about self defense would still get it regardless of price (within reason), but what I'm thinking about are people who are interested in getting started in their personal protection. It tears down a rather large barrier to entry that will make it easier to expand the types of people that apply for their LTC.

Skiprr wrote:

infoman wrote:One last question? Assuming this bill passes, it will create a giant volume increase & likewise hudge backlog in processing. If the costs are all waived, who's paying for all the DPS costs to function a massive increase in an already swamped department? would taxes be effected in any way? Just trying to get a good understanding. I guess I'm wondering where will the funds come from?

Just my opinion, but--while I imagine there would be an increase in new applications, at least for a while--I honestly don't believe it would be a factor of magnitude increase.

It's hard for me to fathom that the state's standard $140 fee is such a deterrent that it's been a dam holding back hundreds of thousands of new applicants for over 20 years. After all, there are already a number of contingencies in place that reduce the fee substantially for those who meet certain criteria. Any honorably discharged veteran pays only $25 (and active military pay nothing), and people over 60 or those who fall below the federal poverty guidelines pay half, or $70.

I think elimination of the fee would be a great thing, but I just can't imagine the current fee has been the primary factor preventing a ton of people from getting their licenses.

I disagree. I think the $140 state fee is enough to weed out all but the most dedicated of people. It's not something you "just get into" because it costs so much money. By eliminating the fee, I would imagine we would see more transitions from casual gun owner to LTC carrier because the barrier to entry would be greatly reduced to only the cost of the class. Something like that is very easy to gift to someone who is showing some interest but not enough to write a $140 check to the state on top of a $75-150 class.

Some people will get the LTC "just to have it" or "just in case." And like I said, I think there will be a lot of casual shooters/gun owners and even non-gun owners crossing over.

[edit] I know plenty of people who want to get their LTC but never seem to commit to it. I'm thinking if this goes through, many of them will commit.

BeanCounter wrote:

infoman wrote: I guess I'm wondering where will the funds come from?

The Texas Comptroller’s office collects about $50 billion annually acording to their website.
https://www.comptroller.texas.gov/transparency/revenue/

The "loss" of LTC fees is the proverbial drip in a very large bucket. I doubt anyone except bean counter types would ever notice.

You're right. During calendar year 2015, there were 217,588 CHL's issued. There were another 1,081 denied. That's 218,669 total applications. Assuming everyone paid the full $140 (which I know isn't true because of military, peace officer, senior citizen, indigent, etc. discounts), the state would have received UP TO $30,613,660 or in other words, approximately 0.06% of the revenue of the state. Not 6 percent. Not 6 tenths of a percent, but 6 hundredths of a percent based on the $50 billion figure.

Of course, this bill doesn't impact most of us as much as it impacts those who don't have their LTC yet and don't have a lot of money to get their LTC. High fees impacts low class families in their ability to exercise their rights. (Poll tax, anyone?) I ultimately want to see both the elimination of gun free zones and the reduction/elimination of LTC fees, but this will get more people on our side to help push future legislative goals.

If I were given a choice between the two, I would still choose elimination of gun free zones, but this one isn't that far behind. Hopefully we won't have to choose and get the best of both worlds.