Search found 14 matches

by TEA
Fri May 09, 2014 2:19 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

TEA wrote:The survey will ask respondents to select: a) strongly agree, b) agree, c) no opinion, d) disagree, e) strongly disagree with regards to the following statements:

1. I support only faculty and staff CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed handguns on
campus.


2. I support faculty, staff and students who are CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed
handguns on campus


3. I do not support faculty, staff or students carrying weapons or guns of any kind on college
campuses regardless of whether or they have a CHL or not.
UPDATE: The vote did not go well.

Q1 - 26 to 24 against
Q2 - 40 to 10 against
Q3 - 33 to 17 in favor

:(

While the results for the first question are fairly evenly split, the results for the second and third are downright disheartening. Not sure where to go from here
by TEA
Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:27 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

The survey will ask respondents to select: a) strongly agree, b) agree, c) no opinion, d) disagree, e) strongly disagree with regards to the following statements:

1. I support only faculty and staff CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed handguns on
campus.


2. I support faculty, staff and students who are CHL holders being allowed to carry concealed
handguns on campus


3. I do not support faculty, staff or students carrying weapons or guns of any kind on college
campuses regardless of whether or not the individual has a CHL.

Since I already sent out my proposal and supporting material prior to the Association meeting last week, faculty will already have read my arguments in favor of concealed carry. Here is a copy of the draft of my proposal:

A Resolution to Promote Campus Safety

We the faculty call upon the Hill College Board of Regents to adopt rules that would allow Concealed Handgun License (CHL) holders (hereafter referred to as “licensees”) to exercise their right to carry concealed handguns on Hill College Campuses per the Board’s authority under Penal Code Chapter §46.03 (a)(1). (TAB A) We do not adopt the resolution lightly and do so to promote campus safety and protect the civil rights of the members of the Hill College community based upon the following:

1. The vast majority of mass shootings in recent years have occurred in locations that had rules prohibiting the carrying of firearms upon their premises. Such rules only deter law abiding citizens from carrying firearms and not criminal. Blanket prohibitions from carrying firearms create an environment that is inviting to violent criminals because the intended victims do not have the ability to defend themselves.

2. A study funded by the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) indicates that violent criminals’ fear of armed citizens is a significantly stronger deterrent than their fear of the police. (Wright, James and Peter Rossi, 1994) Allowing licensees the right to carry on campus would serve as a deterrent not only to potential mass shootings, but also to more common forms of violent crime.

3. The right to self-defense is a fundamental human right. Prohibiting licensees, who have undergone a thorough criminal background check, from carrying handguns on campus denies them of their right to self-defense.

4. CHL licensees are 15 times less like to commit crimes than the general public (TAB B – compiled by Charles Cotton based on data publicly available from DPS ), so allowing licensees to carry on campus will not increase the likelihood of violence on campus, particularly since those most likely to commit violent crimes are those most likely to ignore the requirement to have a CHL and the prohibition against carrying firearms on campus.

5. Many faculty and staff currently have a CHL. Under current rules, licensees must store their handgun in their vehicles while on campus. This increases the likelihood that a criminal may obtain a firearm while burglarizing a licensee’s vehicle. In addition to the immediate threat to campus safety that such a theft would pose, because the majority of guns used in crimes are obtained illegally, the theft of a handgun from a licensee’s vehicle would contribute to the overall problem of criminals’ use of guns in violent crimes.

6. Currently, over 70 public school districts in Texas have adopted rules allowing licensees to carry on their campuses. School superintendents from two of these districts have stated that they have had no reports of incidences on any campuses involving licensees nor any reports from students, parents or faculty that these rules have created an environment on campus that stifles free expression of ideas. Similarly, Utah has long allowed licensees to carry on public school, college and university campuses with no adverse effects and Colorado has adopted laws that allow licensees to carry on college and university campuses.
by TEA
Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:24 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

Update:

I don't think I did a great job in selling my proposal. Allowed the the discussion to to much on self defense and not enough on deterrence. One area of broad agreement, though, was that we needed to be able to accurately represent what the faculty's point of view on this topic is rather than allow the BOR, the administration and TCCTA claim that they represent us without having asked for our opinion. To this end, we are going to conduct a poll of all of the faculty to see where we stand on the issue and move on from there. The three poll questions we're working on right now are:

Would you support a policy that would allow faculty and staff who hold a CHL to carry on campus?
Would you support a policy that would allow faculty, staff and students who hold a CHL to carry on campus?
Do you support the current policy that does not allow the carrying of any firearms on campus regardless of whether or not an individual has a CHL?
by TEA
Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:52 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

Update:

My proposal is on the agenda for discussion at this Friday's Faculty Association meeting. After discussing the process with the president of our association, the proposal will be introduced and discussed at this Friday's meeting, then a committee will be formed to research this issue and report back to the association at the next meeting at which time we will debate and vote on the proposal.
by TEA
Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:21 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

Could a moderator please move this thread to the political sub-forum? I think it would more properly belong there. TIA
by TEA
Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:17 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

TEA wrote:One concern that the board of regents has expressed in the past (and apparently so have other colleges and universities) is increased legal liability. I know that HB 972 (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... navpanes=0) addressed this by amending Chapter 411.208 of the Government Code to expand legal immunity from civil action to institutions of higher education. With out this extension of immunity to specifically include institutions of higher education, would public institutions of higher education still be covered under the broader definition of a "subdivision of the state"?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.208

This could be a deal breaker right here if not. :headscratch
Received an e-mail from Alice Tripp. 411.208 does indeed provide legal immunity to the school as a subdivision of the state.

I have spoken with or corresponded with a few of the superintendents for some of the ISDs that have adopted rules to allow for concealed carry by faculty and staff. As I suspected:
1. No complaints from faculty, staff, students or parents that they feel as if their First Amendment rights are being infringed upon by concealed carry on campus.
2. They have experienced no negative incidents as a result of allowing concealed carry. In fact, one superintendent described the practice of concealed carry by faculty and staff to be so trouble free as to be "boring."
3. They all feel as if allowing concealed carry on their campuses makes their schools safer, not more dangerous, and see this measure primarily as a deterrent to would be mass shooters and other predators.

I want to finish drafting my proposal tomorrow or Saturday so that I have plenty of time to send it out to all of the faculty before our association meeting next Friday.
by TEA
Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:40 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

One concern that the board of regents has expressed in the past (and apparently so have other colleges and universities) is increased legal liability. I know that HB 972 (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... navpanes=0) addressed this by amending Chapter 411.208 of the Government Code to expand legal immunity from civil action to institutions of higher education. With out this extension of immunity to specifically include institutions of higher education, would public institutions of higher education still be covered under the broader definition of a "subdivision of the state"?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.208

This could be a deal breaker right here if not. :headscratch
by TEA
Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:12 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

Thanks, guys. I will contact these school districts to get some feedback from them on their experiences with allowing concealed carry on campus.
by TEA
Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:50 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

MarshalMatt wrote:Of course, we have seen some school districts contemplating or even allowing teachers and administrators to legally conceal.
Do you have any examples in Texas of public schools that allow teachers and/or administrators to carry? That would be a good precedent to cite in my proposal.
by TEA
Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:11 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

Gotcha
by TEA
Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:06 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

MarshalMatt wrote:You can currently keep your weapon in your vehicle on public university campuses....just can't take them in the building.
Yes, see point #5 in my OP.

As for public schools, isn't that prohibition via school board rules for employees rather than via statute?
by TEA
Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:50 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

maximus2161 wrote:Matter of fact I was taking a class at TCC NE Campus and was discussing campus carry with my CPR Instructor who is also a police officer. He said even if campus carry passed that TCC (at least the NE Campus) would not allow it. Kind of a bummer. I dont relish the idea of leaving a gun in my vehicle for 8 hours a day while in class. Not ok with that.
That depends on how the law is written. The last bill originally did not have an opt out provision. The "local control" language allowing boards of regents to adopt rules to opt out of the requirement to allow CHL carry was added as an amendment. According to the language of that amendment, a board could adopt a rule to opt out after soliciting input from faculty, staff and students. Does your CPR instructor know for a fact that the TCC Board of Regents would vote for rules to opt out or is he just speculating? I'm hoping that if I can get our faculty association to adopt a resolution calling on our our board to adopt rules allowing for CHL carry on campus that even if the board rejects it now that if the bill to allow for campus carry passes with an the same opt out language that the board will feel too pressured to pass rules to opt out.
by TEA
Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:37 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Re: Legal Carry on College Campuses

Alice Tripp forwarded our correspondence to Tara at the NRA, who sent me a link to the following article:

http://concealedcampus.org/common-arguments/#1

Very useful stuff. This will make for some good talking points at the faculty association meeting, along with the statistics that Chas has so painstakingly compiled. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17975
by TEA
Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:48 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Legal Carry on College Campuses
Replies: 44
Views: 11224

Legal Carry on College Campuses

Howdy, all. I'm new to the forum, so I hope I'm posting this in the correct place. A member of the 1911 Forum recommended that I post over here to ge some feedback, especially from Chas.

As most, if not all of you, are aware, currently, under Texas law, CHL holders may not carry on the premises of an institution of higher education unless that institution has adopted a policy otherwise or given written permission to the license holder. See below for the relevant statute:

[QUOTE=Texas Penal Code]
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;[/QUOTE]

I high lighted the last part because that is what I would like to discuss. During the last legislative session, the Legislature almost amended this to allow for legal carry by license holders, but it narrowly failed in the Senate. After exchanging e-mails with Alice Tripp of the Texas State Rifle Association, I confirmed that the language in the above section of the statute does allow the institutions themselves to adopt a policy that would allow for legal carry by license holders. Given that the community college where I teach is located in one of the reddest parts of a red state, I would like to introduce a measure to the faculty association to put before the board of regents a proposal to adopt rules that would do just that.

Some of the points I plan to bring up:

1. CHL holders have a much lower arrest rate for crimes than the overall public so pose much less of a risk of violence than non CHL holders. The "blood in the street" argument is an irrational fear that has never been supported by the facts.
2. None of the mass shootings at schools that have been increasing in frequency have been carried out by a concealed carry licensee. Prohibiting CHL holders from carrying on campus does not deter someone intent on committing murder from bringing a gun onto campus.
3. All of the recent mass shootings in the US have occurred in places that prohibit the lawful carrying of concealed firearms by licensees. Surveys of criminals in prisons have consistently shown that one of the strongest deterrents against crime is a criminal's fear that the intended victim may be armed. Not allowing CHL holders to exercise their right to carry on campus leaves the entire population on campus more vulnerable, not less. Allowing CHL holders to carry would serve as a deterrent to criminals on campus, especially those intent on murdering unarmed victims.
4. The right to self defense is one of the most fundamental of all human rights. Many faculty and staff work at odd hours and find ourselves alone in buildings late at night or on weekends. Prohibiting us from carrying a firearm for our protection violates our rights to self protection.
5. Many faculty and staff have CHLs. Under current policy, licensees must either leave their firearm at home or in their vehicle. Leaving firearms in vehicles on campus increases the likelihood that a criminal would gain access to a firearm in the process of burglarizing a vehicle on campus.

One of the arguments that someone just recently presented to me was that allowing faculty and students to be armed would inhibit freedom of speech. Personally, I don't see this as a valid concern. Long before I even owned firearms of my own (well, if you don't count the Rem 1100 shotgun my Dad gave me when I was 13 to got duck and goose hunting with him), I always thought that it was a prudent approach when dealing with people to assume that there is a good chance that they are armed. That has never stopped me from voicing my opinion or arguing my point with anyone. The only thing this approach limits is one's inclination to incite someone to violence. A rational argument, no matter how emotionally charged, should never be something that incites violence. Because the CHL law requires licensees to carry concealed, no one should know if a faculty member or student is armed, so how can their carrying a firearm intimidate anyone? My response to this line of argument will be to ask the instructors how many fist fights have broken out in their classrooms or offices while debating academic topics or even discussing student performance (or lack there-of). Personally, I have never seen an academic debate devolve into violence, so I do not think that individuals carrying firearms would increase the likelihood of violence. If anything, I think it would decrease the likelihood, because if one approaches individuals with the thought that there is a chance that they might be armed, one is likely to rely more on logic and reasoning and less on personal insults to make one's point, which decreases significantly the chance that an argument will become violent.

Any other points y'all can think of? Any suggestions you might have for better presenting the above points?

As a complete aside, here are some pics of my 1911, since all posts are better with pictures:
Image
Image
Image
1978 Colt Series '70 with work done by John Harrison. The Silent Thunder Fusion is for concealed carry, the leather cross-draw holster is for when I'm out on hte ranch.

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