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seamusTX wrote:You cannot morally punish people for what they might do, or for what they would like to do if they could get away with it.

- Jim

Cipher wrote:

packsaddle wrote:i have felt similar feelings.

as a christian, i often struggle with hypothetical scenarios of deadly force while defending myself.

if a bg pulls a gun on me and demands my money, sometimes i feel like i should just give him my money.

after all, i can always make more money.

but, what if he takes my money and then shoots me in the head?

now, i'm broke AND dead (not that being broke when your dead means much).

so, the bg pulls his gun and demands my money and i pull my gun and the bullets start flying.

one of bg's stray bullets hits an innocent child nearby and kills her.

was my life more important than that of an innocent little girl?

in summary, it is tough carrying a concealed handgun.

personally, i think open carry would deter much more crime and eliminate some of the anxiety of carrying concealed, but that is another thread.

defending myself is an issue i struggle with often, but defending my family (or an innocent child) is something i would definitely not hesitate to do.

as a matter of fact, the primary reason i got a chl is to defend my family or to intervene on behalf of an innocent child.

of course, i hope i am never forced to do either.

What I'm about to say may sound crass, but this is my view on the matter.

First, there is far more than a few credit cards and such in my wallet - it holds my identity, and I'm not about to change it. Furthermore, there are far too many cases of good guy being shot (or stabbed) after meeting bad guy's demands for me to feel safe handing over what's being demanded. Christian or not, I did not make the choice to put myself in that situation, but I will do what it takes to get out of it under MY terms. I would much rather face the BG then and there instead of having him make a late night visit at my house when I may or may not be there.

IF a round from the BG's gun hits an innocent, child or not, it was not my decision, and even if I had complied there could very well be two dead innocents instead of one. I will defend my family, period. While the killing of an innocent does bother me, it bothers me less that my family persevered. My sole responsibility is my family, I must and will do whatever it takes to ensure their survival, even if it means I do not survive.

To expand upon this, I would be very hesitant about going to someone's rescue. If I think, even for a moment, that I don't have the upper hand I will call for Police assistance and remain witness from afar. I am not saying I will not engage a threat to a third party, but I am saying I will keep my mind about it. Me being a dead "hero" does nothing for my family. Now, if the situation is a one-on-one type of deal and my presence is unknown to the BG, chances are he will be dead before he sees me - BUT, if we are talking "gang" like activity, I will watch rather than try to intervene.

As for open carry, I think that's a mistake, IMO. Say I'm a BG and I see someone with a gun on their hip and he doesn't notice me, I could very well pin him/her to a wall and have their gun before they could react. I think having our weapons concealed goes a lot further in preventing crime than it would if we had open carry. A quick visual check would give a BG all the information he needs as to who is a threat and who isn't.

The reason I got a CHL was to protect my family, period. Secondly, I want to at least have a fighting chance in seeing my daughters grow up into the women I know they will become. I was in the Army too, I still have a lot of that Infantry training in me, and I will fight to the death to protect my family and/or their freedom and I will not think twice about redirecting a BG's gun away from them, even if it ultimately kills somebody else.


Now, all that being said, I will mention that I routinely quiz my wife on "what-ifs". She knows when the poop hits the fan she is to get the kids and herself as far away from me as possible. I have a bit of martial arts training under my belt and want some room to work, and if the BG escalates his intentions I want them out of harms way. I've also instructed her in house clearing, something she used last week when she heard a door shut in the house (it was the dog door, but she was home alone). I was proud that she listened to me. I've also instructed her on progressive trigger squeezes, "combat" shooting and cover techniques. This further exemplifies my duty to protect my family, in my absence she must know how to perform a lot of this herself. Of course, I have an awesome wife :D

I know a lot of this was rambling, but I'm trying to stress my point - my family comes first, and a round from a BG's gun hitting an innocent child was neither my doing or my wish, but in all honesty, I would rather it be ANYONE but one of my children.

Guess I should go ahead and put the flame suit on :p