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Robert*PPS wrote:I bought some of these when they first came out. They were called "Halo Points". Microsoft didn't appreciate the likeness to their video game, hence the name change. The only FTF I've ever experienced with my pistol happened while shooting these rounds. Up until that point, I was tipping the mag with one of these followed by Federal HSTs. Now, I just load the Federals.

Federal HST's are excellent choices. I use their 147gr load in my G19 and my wife carries them in her Shield.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:That penetration is woefully inadequate for self-defense use.

Chas.

Yes it is. Sadly, there are a lot of "snake oil" salesmen out there. Someone actually sent me a video of a guy "testing" a self defense round using a watermelon. It would be great in the unlikely scenario of a watermelon patch invading your home!

I did a huge amount of research on adequate defense rounds for .380 ACP to carry deep cover. I later discovered that a guy going by the moniker of ShootIngTheBull410 had been doing the same kind of research using calibrated gel. Oddly one of the "new design" solid copper, CNC machined, non-hollow point rounds seemed to offer very good performance, but only over a very narrow range of velocities. Under 800 fps and above 1,000 fps it was just another FMJ. Between those velocities it performed as well as the best performing more traditional design (JHP) rounds.

All of which really means each of us needs to know what our carry rounds are going to do and if they will perform as advertised. That and don't jump at what the "snake oil" men are selling too quickly.

Here is a link to a more conventional test of the Liberty round using FBI protocol:

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This is the 9mm version. You should check some of the other loads tested by this guy. The FBI standard protocol is calibrated ballistic gel and 4 layers of specified denim. The standard for handguns is at least 12 inches and not more than 18 inches of penetration. Tnoutdoors9 does very consistent testing that correlates pretty well to professional lab results that I have seen.

Realizing that no handgun is really an adequate fight stopper, I think I will stick to carrying what has actually been proven to work best - for several reasons:

1) I see no need to be able to defeat body armor under any circumstances. If I'm facing armor, I should have brought my rifle.

2) There are numerous loads that are adequate for self defense here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This data is from a world-renowned expert in wound ballistics. I think I'll trust his judgement.

YMMV