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It sounds to me like you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Have a great day.

nightmare69 wrote:You the parent should know and be in control of what your child watches and plays. You should raise your child, not the government. We can get into the "what if" scenarios but I still believe that if you raise your child right then he will continue to do right even though you are not around.

I agree 100% but with one caveat: It must be do as I do and not just do as I say. Kids are smart. They see through that in an instant.

Good discussion. It probably goes without saying to those of you so inclined that we need to pray for America and all those who lead and protect her.

Abraham wrote:ShootDontTalk

You stated "but it does injure everyone to one extent or another"

Perhaps, you're correct, but I'm not at all certain.

I've watched many brutal movies from Sam Peckinpah's "The Wild Bunch" made in 1969 to all of Quentin Tarantino's and many a horror/zombie movie and I don't feel desensitized to brutality or feel in any way that watching them has forged me into someone violent.

Frankly, your blanket statement about being everyone being injured sounds to some extent like a liberal lament.

How do you figure I made a blanket statement such as you imply? You need to go re-read, carefully this time, what I wrote. You do understand that not all injuries are equally visible? Some are, some are not. Not every soldier comes home with PTSD, understand? Not everyone reacts the same way. Does everyone who smokes come down with cancer? No. Some react badly to graphic violence. Some do not. But to say that you are unaffected in no way guarantees that others are not affected. And because subtle changes to our minds (psyche) are extremely difficult to self-detect, that in no way guarantees that we are unaffected. That is about as simple as I can make it.

BTW I can't resist it. Do you know how many generations complained that young generation Romans were destroying Rome? I have no idea. But when the barbarians destroyed Rome it marked a sad end to a once great civilization and historians marked that destruction with a book entitled "The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire." What the older generations warned of came true. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Cedar Park Dad wrote: Strange, I seem to remember a plethora of movies and TV shows where violence and revenge was a major theme.

Just about every cowboy movie ever made but a few examples:
*True Grit
*Hondo
*The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence

A raft of WWII movies

TV shows:
The Rifleman
Combat
Gunsmoke
Gillgan's Island

At the risk of sounding tacky please let me remind you that there is a huge difference between the words "theme" and "graphic". No one is talking about themes. We're talking about "graphic" depictions of violence. "I Love Lucy" had romantic bedroom scenes with the same "theme" as pornography. (Bear with me a second this is a family Board) But if you look closely there is a vast difference in the "graphic" presentation. The former merely hints at the theme, the latter leaves nothing to the imagination. The former simply hints at what is happening, the latter shows things most of us would rather not see.

Ask a soldier, cop, firefighter, healthcare worker or anyone who has come into close proximity to violent death how they feel after having seen it up close and personal for the first time. Consider PTSD. I don't like the "disorder" part at all. The majority of soldiers in combat state that when they saw their buddy blown apart in front of their eyes (graphic) it changed them forever. I'm not suggesting you get PTSD from watching graphic violence in a movie. I am stating that the experience causes changes that are easily seen yet not clearly understood. Very few people remain unaffected. Some never recover. Many become hardened and calloused to the reality. They had a "thematic" knowledge of it even at an early age, but until the brain registers images, the experience will remain somewhat vague and there is no "graphic" understanding. It affects different people in different ways.

Movies and TV with ever more "graphic" depictions of violent death have taken all of us from "thematic" knowledge to a "graphic" understanding. That "graphic" understanding (the visual images), not the imagination as stirred by hints of violence undepicted (mere theme), causes the damage. The tragic part is that we do not even know we are being injured. The fact that so many don't seem to understand the difference, in my opinion, proves the point. Please don't be offended. I have tried to enlighten you to the danger. It's up to you what you do with it. The facts are largely undisputed.

Last word from me. Yes, I agree 100% that it must begin with parents protecting and monitoring what children watch. But as your physician probably says, "Do not neglect yourselves." It may not injure you like it does your children, but it does injure everyone to one extent or another.

You're not seriously suggesting that the portrayal of violence on something like Gunsmoke was comparable to the stuff we see today? When was the last time you saw blood flying on an episode of Gunsmoke?

In any event, the majority of westerns as a whole have never approached the graphic depictions of other genres. Depictions of killing were so mild that viewers today for the most part cannot understand the popularity of wildly popular series like Gunsmoke and others.

If you want an interesting footnote, watch Bonanza. For a season or so there was no depiction of gun violence. Indeed they stopped wearing guns altogether. The ratings fell, the guns came back. Bonanza was the most watched thing on TV for many years. Today it seems like milk toast.

I won't even go into Lollywoods obsession with guns, violence, and graphic death as a way of making money. Does anyone but me find it ironic when one of the loonies lectures us about the evils of owning guns? And no, censorship is probably not the answer. If I could have my way I would ask every American to really look at the root causes of the crumbling of American society and decide to do something about it instead of just settling back to watch another bloodbath on TV. My opinion worth what you paid for it.

I am guilty of an oversimplification of the issue if you define it as the whole of society is going bad. However what I offered is reasoned expertise that suggests routine exposure to graphic violence make violent acts more acceptable to those so exposed. Killing, not disrespecting parents, not a loss of family values, becomes easier if one is routinely exposed to killing. Certainly not every problem of society lies at the feet of graphic violence in movies and TV. Simple logic suggests that what we see affects what we do - or are the billions of dollars spent on advertising a complete waste? Are you not ever moved to help starving children by visual images of them? In the same way advertisers seek to modify behavior, so graphic violent movies seek to do the same. The tragedy is those who make such movies only seek our money, but they are taking with it our respect for human life.

I cannot stress how strongly I feel it important to read Col. Grossman's work, especially if you feel every act of graphic violent death does nothing to affect the human psyche.

That is certainly not the total answer. You have named some of the factors contributing to the decay of society. Only a fool would suggest graphic violence is the only contributing factor. After a lifetime of watching my fellow man, looking into my heart to see how it has affected me, and hearing from many that have been similarly affected, I have come to believe that graphic visual violence contributes to violence in society with the same certainty that I know exposure to it in military training makes more effective soldiers in war. Does it make everyone a raging sociopath? No. You need to take the time to read the Colonels' research. He explains it much better than I can.

And mamabearcali is exactly right. The home is where we must say, enough.

nightmare69 wrote:Video games and movies may be a small part of the problem but it's not the root. I've played and still play first person shooter video games and enjoy movies like Rambo. To lay all the blame on movies and games as the cause of violence is just as bad as the anti gunners blaming guns or assault weapons as the cause.

I will only point you to a study of the issue and how the US military "toughened" up combat troops beginning in the Vietnam war era. The book is entitled: "On Killing" by Lt. Col. Grossman. You don't have to buy it even. It is available in .pdf format here:
http://www.kropfpolsci.com/cognitive.grossman.pdf

As an old grizzled Marine drill sergeant said back in the late 60's, "Holdin' this rifle won't make you a killer...what I train you to do will make you a killer." How true that is: Guns don't kill. People kill. People acclimated to violence make superb killers.

Most people disbelieve the effect of graphic portrayals of violence on society because they have never lived in a time when those portrayals were taboo on TV and in movies. We truly did live in a much kinder, gentler society during the first part of my nearly 7 decades of life. That way of life began to change in the early 1970's and is, in my view, accelerating at an ever faster rate. Today, nothing is taboo. We are reaping what we have sown.