chasfm11 wrote:jbarn wrote:chasfm11 wrote:
If a law is every passed to allow us to carry in church AND serve in an official capacity (user, etc) in that church, I would want and welcome additional training. If nothing else, I would not want several of us to try to respond to a threat and get into one another's way. That is something that I worry about today
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Can you clarify? One can carry in church now. I assume you meant "usher" when you referred to a position of official capacity?
Yes, "user" was supposed to be "usher" but my spell check helped me and I didn't catch it. I'm lousy at proof-reading my own writing.
There have been numerous threads here about not being part of any recognized function in the church while carrying. I do carry in church all the time (choir rehearsals, etc in addition to the services). I haven't volunteered to be on the usher committee because of the the duties of that group is to check the hallways during services. It looks a lot like a security function and it is my understanding that anything that looks like organized security under the current statutes is prohibited for CHL. It is another case where an industry lobby is too powerful.
I am a licensed manager (qualified with experienced and passed a test administered by DPS over the Private Security Laws) as well as a an armed body guard and private investigator. I have 30 plus years experience in the industry. There is no law under 1702 of the occupations code to prevent a CHL holder from being a part of a recognized function while carrying. It does prevent one from conducting security duties unless properly licensed and registered.
Checking hallways might or might not be a regulated activity.
This is the section of 1702 that applies;
Texas Occupations Code
Sec. 1702.108. GUARD COMPANY. A person acts as a guard company for the purposes of this chapter if the person employs an individual described by Section 1702.323(d) or engages in the business of or undertakes to provide a private watchman, guard, or street patrol service on a contractual basis for another person to:
(1) prevent entry, larceny, vandalism, abuse, fire, or trespass on private property;
(2) prevent, observe, or detect unauthorized activity on private property;
(3) control, regulate, or direct the movement of the public, whether by vehicle or otherwise, only to the extent and for the time directly and specifically required to ensure the protection of property;
(4) protect an individual from bodily harm including through the use of a personal protection officer; or
(5) perform a function similar to a function listed in this section.
DPS published an opinion on this in 2007
May 10, 2007
A volunteer security patrol made up of church members would generally require licensing under the provisions of Section 1702.108 or 1702.222, regardless of whether any compensation is received as a result of the activities. The only exception to licensing provided by the legislature for nonprofit and civic organizations is found in Section 1702.327, which applies specifically to nonprofit and civic organizations that employ peace officers under certain circumstances and would not be applicable here.
However, there is one exception to licensing under Chapter 1702 provided by the legislature that could arguably apply, which can be found in section 1702.323 (“Security department of Private Business”). This exception would allow volunteers to provide security services exclusively for one church, as long as they do not carry firearms and as long as they do not wear “a uniform with any type of badge commonly associated with security personnel or law enforcement or a patch or apparel with ‘security’ on the patch or apparel.” See Tex. Occ. Code §1702.323(a) & (d)(2). Thus, the wearing of a uniform or any apparel containing the word “security” would subject them to the licensing requirements of the act.
While I would not offer a determination on your specific church and the status of your ushers without the opportunity to review the written policies and procedures, it IS entirely possible that you could carry as an usher.