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Return to “How to report improper §30.06 signs”
- Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:22 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: How to report improper §30.06 signs
- Replies: 258
- Views: 120143
Re: How to report improper §30.06 signs
Ok, but what about my example of a government agency leasing an office in a multistory office building where a 30.06 was already posted before they started their lease? The government didn't require the sign be posted, and the sign is not on property leased by them, but it's on property retained by the lessor, but it's property that anyone entering the government-leased property must enter to get to the government-leased property (e.g., the lobby). If it's the sign is on private property, then how would suing the government help? This situation wouldn't be the egregious nose-thumbing that the 1' zoo example would be.
- Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:19 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: How to report improper §30.06 signs
- Replies: 258
- Views: 120143
Re: How to report improper §30.06 signs
Everyone agrees that if the government leases property to someone that the lessee is prohibited from posting 30.06. But what about if someone leases property to the government? The law says:
The second question is, what is "provide notice?" Ok, providing notice is posting the sign, but did the state really provide notice if they didn't post the sign, but instead the property owner posted the sign? What about if the sign is not posted on property leased by the government as the lessee, but the sign is posted only on property the landlord has not leased, but is property which anyone must pass through in order to enter the property leased by the government as lessee? For example, if a government agency leases one floor on a multi-story office building, they don't seem to be able to post a 30.06 outside their office door on that floor, but I'm not sure if the building management can't post a 30.06 on the first floor entrance. I'm pretty sure I've read of a legal doctrine (not sure of the name) where if a government entity may not perform some action then they can't require someone else to perform that action (e.g. as part of a legal agreement like a lease). But what about a lease that was signed before SB 273 came into effect? Is that now nullified?
If there's nothing preventing 30.06 posting on property leased by a government as a lessee, I can really see the Dallas Zoo (or someone similar) doing something retarded like selling a 1' strip of property surrounding the zoo to a private entity, which then posts a 30.06 on the property and leases the 1' strip back to the zoo on a 99-year lease.
So the first question is, what does "leased" mean? As far as I can tell, the dictionary definition of the verb "lease" can be used both for the letting of property by the lessor and the hiring of property by the lessee. But the dictionary definition isn't necessarily the legal definition. I wasn't able to find the legal definition of "lease" in the Texas state code, but I did see in Government Code 2167 where the verb "lease" is used in talking about the state hiring property as the lessee. So it appears that the state may not post a 30.06 sign on property they hire as the lessee.Sec. 411.209. WRONGFUL EXCLUSION OF CONCEALED HANDGUN
LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A state agency or a political subdivision of
the state may not provide notice by a communication described by
Section 30.06, Penal Code, or by any sign expressly referring to
that law or to a concealed handgun license, that a license holder
carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is
prohibited from entering or remaining on a premises or other place
owned or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders
are prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other
place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code.
The second question is, what is "provide notice?" Ok, providing notice is posting the sign, but did the state really provide notice if they didn't post the sign, but instead the property owner posted the sign? What about if the sign is not posted on property leased by the government as the lessee, but the sign is posted only on property the landlord has not leased, but is property which anyone must pass through in order to enter the property leased by the government as lessee? For example, if a government agency leases one floor on a multi-story office building, they don't seem to be able to post a 30.06 outside their office door on that floor, but I'm not sure if the building management can't post a 30.06 on the first floor entrance. I'm pretty sure I've read of a legal doctrine (not sure of the name) where if a government entity may not perform some action then they can't require someone else to perform that action (e.g. as part of a legal agreement like a lease). But what about a lease that was signed before SB 273 came into effect? Is that now nullified?
If there's nothing preventing 30.06 posting on property leased by a government as a lessee, I can really see the Dallas Zoo (or someone similar) doing something retarded like selling a 1' strip of property surrounding the zoo to a private entity, which then posts a 30.06 on the property and leases the 1' strip back to the zoo on a 99-year lease.