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by CHL/LEO
Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:52 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Lawful Order for civilians?
Replies: 25
Views: 13472

Out of curiosity, what is the gist of such an explanation?
#1 - I want them to stay safe and when they are out of their vehicle it can be a lot more dangerous for them - especially in a high traffic area. The majority of my traffic stops are done when it's dark and that increases visibility issues even more; and that doesn't even touch upon the issue of intoxicated drivers on the road at that time of the night...

#2 - is for my safety. It's a lot harder for me to keep an eye on them while I'm trying to read my computer screen or write out a citation. It's also a bigger inconvenience for them. The longer it takes me to complete that part of the traffic stop the longer they are delayed as to where they were going.

The bottom line is their safety and officer safety.
by CHL/LEO
Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:05 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Lawful Order for civilians?
Replies: 25
Views: 13472

A LEO cannot just randomly walk up to a person, demand ID and do a Terry Search.
TXI - sure they can - it happens quite often. The key word you left out was "legally" ;-) Plus, If I come up to you and asked, "Hey, do you mind showing me some ID and by the way, you don't mind if I check you for weapons do you?" and you say "no problem" then there's really nothing illegal with that. Now if I asked that same question and you replied, "No, that is a problem" and I went forward with it, then an illegal act "might" have occurred unless I had a clearly articulatable (and legitimate) reason for the Terry search.

This is the exact same thing that's involved in our consensual vehicle searches or "knock & talk" residential searches. If I ask permission to search your home or residence you have every legal right to refuse it but it you say "sure - go right ahead" then nothing illegal has taken place. Again, most people think that they have to answer in the affirmative when asked this but they legally don't have to. Lots of criminals that have been arrested know that they don't have to do so because their attorneys from previous arrests have told them not to give permission in the future. By far most of them don't listen very well and continue to give permission.

I like Mage34's response about civic duty. I was raised during a time when we were taught by our parents and others to always obey the police. We never questioned whether something was "legal" or not. We just did it because it seemed the right thing to do. Most people today have not a clue about their "legal rights" but instead have some belief based upon hearsay as to what their "rights" are.

The bottom line - follow the laws, act decent and be civil toward LE and things will probably work out better than you expect.

Like TXI said, if someone gets out of their car, starts walking back toward me, and refuses my commands to stop and return to their vehicle; there's not really anything legally that I can do about that but they're probably going to have more problems than if they would have just gotten back into their car. I usually cut people slack on traffic stops and let them go with a warning unless it's something real egregious, but in this case - someone is probably going to get a ticket, or at the least be further delayed due to me explaining to them why I asked them to remain in their vehicle.

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