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I doubt he is saying they are not worth worrying about. Rather than try to make a mountain out of a mole hill, the OC movement needs to concentrate on the larger issues that will ensure that they see better results. Essentially How can you promote OC so that it benefits the most people rather than trying to help a statistically non-existent few? The legislature is made up of politicians who see their votes as helping them get re-elected, serving a few people while ignoring the majority will cost them their jobs. This is why most politicians pay attention to what the NRA says while the Brady Bunch only appeals to the few who are more interested in their ideology than keeping their job.

blue wrote:1. CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY ( CWL- not just handguns but knives also protected by TX STATE Pre-empt.)
(Includes STRONG Parking, Campus)
(San Antonio has knife laws that can bust a CHLer for a pocket knife while carrying a gun! so I hear.)

Constitutional Carry is more than that. In Essence Constitutional Carry is legal open and concealed carry without a license. My longer term goal is to see Constitutional Carry similar to AZ and AK where you also have the option of a CHL for out of state reciprocity, to be exempted from the Federal Gun Free School Zones act, ect. Campus Carry would still be dependent upon a CHL due to FEDERAL law. Many folks, myself included, see Legal Open Carry as the first step towards Constitutional Carry.

During the last session, one thing that the OCDO folks made an issue of was claiming that Accidental Failure To Conceal was a crime. For the most part they did not claim that innocent people were being arrested for accidental FTC, just that FTC in general was a crime. As a matter of personal policy I do not let half truths, Misinformation, or lies, go unchallenged if I can.

Texas Size 11 wrote:

baldeagle wrote:I've been reading this thread with a great deal of interest, not to mention amusement. I'm ambivalent on open carry. If it passed, I probably wouldn't change my carry habits very much. If it doesn't pass, I still will carry every day.

Same here. I'll CC even if it is passed. The only thing OC means to me is that I could accidentally expose my weapon with no issues.

Already can, seeing how accidentally would not meet "Intentional failure to conceal."

Rather than worry about my basis of some percentage poll that can cause change, why not say "Hey, maybe not a bad idea, but there are dangers you need to be aware of - let me get hold of these folks and HELP."?????

Charles has offered to help. IIRC he offered some suggestions to the folks at OCDO regarding their proposed bill last year, and was ignored then insulted. He has also, more than once, offered his suggestions on how to go about getting OC legalized. Now with that said I will trust Mr. Cotton's advice, even when I disagree with it, especially when it involves gun rights and Texas politics. As for why I trust him, he's been there and done that so he knows what he's talking about rather than being an armchair quarterback. Also, why would he want to help a group that has launched personal attacks against him because he wouldn't jump on their bandwagon at the expense of other goals?

As for the Challenge I travel to New Mexico a lot (Its less than 50 miles away). NM is an OC state with CHL laws and regulations being less than ideal. For Example you can not carry more than one handgun concealed in NM. Every time I have to go into NM I have to make a choice before I get out of my car: A. Remove my BUG or B. OC my primary. I prefer the tactical advantage of CC, but I prefer having that BUG in case my primary fails. I have tried both methods and have gotten some mixed results when OCing. The little wannabe gang members look at you and move off while almost everyone else either ignores you. Some folks will comment on "that nice gun" while some will ask if your a police officer. But here's the catch, I am dressed professionally (nice shirt, tucked in slacks or nice jeans, ect) when I OC over there. In all honesty I prefer to CC to the point that I will all most always leave my BUG in my vehicle while I am in NM. Hopefully NM will get a new director for their DPS who will strike the 1 concealed gun rule since they got a new governor.

As I have said in the past I believe that a 2 sign system would be best, any sign works to prevent unlicensed carry while a 30.06 prevents licensed carry. And Mr. Cotton has said in the past the Legislature will not let such a system stand, considering his experience with Texas Politics I will accept his statement as the truth. I doubt the legislature would allow outdoor only OC to stand as well, however if they did it would most likely not survive a court challenge.

The bank I do business with posts gun busters to keep folks from carrying long guns in, but they are aware of 30.06 and that it is required to prohibit concealed carry so they have refused to post it. So if OC were legalized with 30.06 prohibiting all forms of carry and nothing else being valid I would loose my bank, but if the legislature respects my banks property rights and allows them to ban Open/Unlicensed carry while letting them allow legal concealed/licensed carry I would not see any kind of change. As it stands now we actually have a two sign requirement in reality. Any sign (except 30.06) prohibits the carry of long guns, while the 30.06 only prohibits concealed handguns. Many places already post two signs when they post 30.06, look at the pictures posted on here. You typically see a "Gun Busters" sign above each of the English and Spanish portions of the 30.06 language. This is already done to prohibit all forms of legal carry. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Mr. Cotton is wrong, I'm just pointing out that we might be able to educate the legislature that a two sign system is best solution if we want to respect the rights of people who carry and the rights of property owners.

C-dub wrote:I am kind of sorta in favor of OC. I might or might not do it, but like many, I think it could make things easier in the HOT summer months or other circumstances. As far as a bill, though, wouldn't it be easier or better to get the laws removed that make OC illegal?

For my next question, I really don't know the answer so I'm not trying to set anyone up. In the states that have OC and CC, how does it work there? If there is anyone here from one of those states can you tell us? Does one sign prohibit both?

However, I would rather have more freedom to CC than the right to OC returned and lose some of our CC rights.

It actually depends on the State. States with constitutional carry (AZ, AK, and VA) allow you to carry anyway you want with or without a license. All other states with CC require a license, leaving OC to the actual laws of that state. Some of those states have licensed OC, others do not. States with OC typically have no provision for "Intentional Failure to Conceal" making that a non-crime in most cases.

Hostile towards some folks over at OCDO, not all but the reputation that the aggressive/hostile few have earned has soiled the reputation of OCDO in many respects.

At one time I offered to do what I could to help with open carry, to try and follow Mr. Cotton's suggestions. However due to the rather rabid attitude of some (not all) of the folks over at the OC website I can not support any effort that involves them. I simply can not afford to be associated with those folks. So when I see anything that involves them I will simply make a statement similar to this one and proceed to ignore them. To be perfectly honest these folks MUST grow up, get smart, and learn how to play Texas politics. Their efforts to get OC legalized in Texas are doomed until they do so, or until someone who does know how to play the game gets involved. In politics you want to make friends, not enemies.