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My guess is that this particular example is going to be pretty expensive for taxpayers.

I can't watch that stuff.. It just makes me ill.

Abraham wrote:For all who won't respond to inland BP questions, ranging from "Are you a citizen" to anything they care to come up in the way questions: What are you willing to suffer?

I have yet to decline. However, if you do decline, it seems the minimum you need to be willing to put up with is a some minor detention. Obviously on-site, but seems like they ask people to pull off and subject them to longer detention and more substantial interest.

Beyond that, I'd question what the point is going to be. It's very unlikely to change the internal operations just because you refused - so you'd need to be willing to file a complaint about it and follow it up... I know that some of this stuff has the attention of legislators in some states. And enough people doing it and then doing something about it, it might get changed.

Beyond that, there is the consideration that this sort of thing is a "necessary evil" as we all know that what they are really looking for - drugs - are occasionally found through these checkpoints.. And honestly the more liberty we give up, the easier it is to fight terrorism, drug dealing, and general criminality... I guess some people are OK with that.

SkipB wrote: I chose to leave my tool box and boat lids unlocked just in case they ask to look inside. They do have a right to do that. I'm not saying everyone has to feel as I do, to each their own.

Skip, first, thanks for your obviously substantial service.
As a former police officer, you know that you can't just make up what you can and can't search. I understand a willingness to be compliant and helpful - not give these guys a hard time.

We're talking about inland check points. What is it that gives the border patrol the right to search your truck and boat at an inland check point? Border check point is different - they can search at will.

SkipB wrote: I always make sure every locked box on my PU or boat are unlocked. My ego is not so big I have to look down on them.

That's going a bit far, I think.. I can understand the argument that it's really not too much to ask to say "American citizen" - but to prepare your stuff for search? I'm not talking about an actual border checkpoint here (different set of rules) - but the inland check points - why the heck are they searching you or your boat?

couzin wrote:Having worked on a border project, I got to know a bunch of officers in TX, NM, AZ, and CA. They are not evil and they are not trying to trample your rights. It is ridiculous when jerks show their behind with these provocation videos. For crying out loud just say you are a citizen and get on down the road. It ain't that hard. BTW - yes they are Federal law enforcement and as such they can search, arrest, and pursue. And - they also can apprehend someone breaking State laws (they just turn em over to local law enforcement for charge/prosecution). If stopped by any Federal Law enforcement it might be a good idea to simply tell them you are armed and have a concealed carry license. Again - it ain't that hard.

I'm with you.. it's real easy not to cause trouble. But the reality is that they're not "allowed" to do anything about someone who remains silent, but they often do...
And what's the point? Is saying "yes" to that question really enough to establish citizenship? I think not... It's not a stop about residency, it's a stop about eyeballing your vehicle and maybe slowing you down enough for a quick sniff from the drug dog - and having that happen on THIS side of the border isn't legal. America doesn't start 100 miles from the border. Sure, it catches some bad guys... And sure, it's a minor inconvenience, but we could catch a lot more bad guys if we were to trample a few more rights.

The world isn't perfect...

JSThane wrote: I don't have my reference handy, but it's essentially that citizenship "shall be established to the agent's satisfaction." Normally, this amounts to "Are you an American citizen?" "Yes."

Maybe we're talking about different things. I'm talking about inland checkpoints. I know that the on-border checkpoints are a different matter.
I can't find any requirement at inland check points. Is your right to remain silent somehow suspended at these checkpoints?

JSThane wrote: Long version, an agent can ask you any question he or she likes. The one you -have- to answer is "Are you an American citizen?" If not, then they now have to find out if you're legal. That's it.

Just to qubble on that a bit, do you "have" to answer that question? I understand that it's the officers job to determine the probable answer to that question, but I wasn't under the impression that you have to say anything.

Any if you do have to answer, how does a verbal answer actually justify "proof"? Asking for ID or papers is a much more accurate means of establishing citizenship.

Again, I'm not saying make a hassle.. I'm asking what is actually required. No crime has been committed. They're not actively investigating something. What gives the BP a special clause that forces you to answer that question?

jmra wrote:If you so desire you can tell them to go pound salt. I'm a little more diplomatic.

Correct, but bring a recording device. Expect hassle.

I'm curious, what was he reasonably suspicious of that he needed to stop you? IE - why did he tell you that you were stopped?

3 guns.. impressive!

TresHuevos wrote:They aren't looking for citizenship anyway, just drugs. We need to stop this little game about CBP not on the border pretending to enforce immigration laws and make them a uniformed division of the DEA.

Completely agree.