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by cb1000rider
Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far
Replies: 76
Views: 9543

Re: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far

mojo84 wrote:I don't think anyone is saying things were good before. I think anyone with any sense at all will admit the healthcare and health insurance industries needed to be reformed. The problem is, we were lied too regarding the Obamacare bill and nothing had changed other than who controls these industries. This was nothing more than some wealth redistribution and a huge step to single payer. The more government involvement and less competition, the higher the costs and get options we'll have.
I think a lot of people either forget or don't realize the trend that we were on. The focus is clearly on Obamacare now.. And for all it's failings, of which there are many, it was a change... I'm ready for another change. It is wealth distribution or perhaps a movement toward socialized medicine, I think that's true..

It's going to be used as a tool again over the next 2-6 years if overturned. And this time Republicans are going to get the brunt of it... The best strategy (in my mind) wouldn't be to kill Obamacare, but to cut the objectionable parts such as no more high deductable plans.. At least that way you'd have someone to blame.

Really fixing the US heathcare system - I don't think that can be done within current bounds. There is too much money involved... It's going to need to implode.
by cb1000rider
Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:08 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far
Replies: 76
Views: 9543

Re: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far

The Annoyed Man wrote:Well, whatever bull they are selling us, we not only could not keep the plans we liked before Obamacare, we can't keep the one we picked under Obamacare. We are going to have to drop the Obamacare plan we chose, and go for one with fewer benefits, worse coverage, and higher out of pocket costs because we cannot afford it. Eventually, we will be forced onto Medicare......which is of course what the democrats really wanted in the first place, because that is eventually EVERYBODY's premature fate unless this abomination is overturned.

OTH, I'm no longer convinced that republicans, majority notwithstanding, have all the answers either......or the ones they have are not much better than the democrats. I no longer trust their talk. Now, they'll have to walk the walk if they want my support.
Realistically, pre-Obamacare, that's the way things were going too, at least for me.. Heath care costs were going up every year (for employers, who often passed the expense to employees). In order to counter, every year or two we lost slight benefits, had our providers changed, and had deductibles raised.

Obama really got it wrong by indicating that you could keep your own plan. That's absolutely true.. Not a good call, for sure.. I don't believe it was a "lie" as that implies an intentional falsehood.. I do believe that he got it wrong. And I think that point isn't the real problem.

Costs are still increasing. It's easy to blame Obamacare. Course, costs were increasing pre-Obamacare too, but at least now we've got someone to point a finger at as it works well for political function. The real question, to me, is are costs increasing more or less than they were before? I'd like to see that answered by a neutral 3rd party using real math.

There are other fundamentals driving the costs of healthcare... And mark my words, when we get a Republican president, if those fundamentals aren't changed - which means more than just "abolishing Obamacare" - then the Democrats are going to use the same strategy and point out the failure of the Republican party. I'd be very wary if I was a Republican running on an "abolish Obamacare" platform, as that celebration is only going to last long enough for the next round of health care cost increases.

Reversing Obamacare won't change it... It may give back high deductible plans with relatively low benefits, which DO cost less... But you can always buy less with less.. That's not a solution.

Removing Obamacare won't won't solve the implosion that will eventually occur with our heathcare system if things continue.

I don't trust the talk of either party. Being a politician is perhaps a good career and you get elected by promising the cut taxes and increase benefits, it's a pretty well established way of doing business. The political party differences simply seem to be which priorities and by how much you're going to spend or cut. Neither party has shown any capability of real fiscal restraint or ability to actually do the basic math required to keep this country solvent long term. Make promises, get elected, pass the debt on to future politicians and generations...
by cb1000rider
Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:58 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far
Replies: 76
Views: 9543

Re: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far

The Annoyed Man wrote:Well, whatever bull they are selling us, we not only could not keep the plans we liked before Obamacare, we can't keep the one we picked under Obamacare. We are going to have to drop the Obamacare plan we chose, and go for one with fewer benefits, worse coverage, and higher out of pocket costs because we cannot afford it. Eventually, we will be forced onto Medicare......which is of course what the democrats really wanted in the first place, because that is eventually EVERYBODY's premature fate unless this abomination is overturned.

OTH, I'm no longer convinced that republicans, majority notwithstanding, have all the answers either......or the ones they have are not much better than the democrats. I no longer trust their talk. Now, they'll have to walk the walk if they want my support.
Realistically, pre-Obamacare, that's the way things were going too, at least for me.. Heath care costs were going up every year (for employers, who often passed the expense to employees). In order to counter, every year or two we lost slight benefits, had our providers changed, and had deductibles raised.

Obama really got it wrong by indicating that you could keep your own plan. That's absolutely true.. Not a good call, for sure.. I don't believe it was a "lie" as that implies an intentional falsehood.. I do believe that he got it wrong. And I think that point isn't the real problem.

Costs are still increasing. It's easy to blame Obamacare. Course, costs were increasing pre-Obamacare too, but at least now we've got someone to point a finger at as it works well for political function. The real question, to me, is are costs increasing more or less than they were before? I'd like to see that answered by a neutral 3rd party using real math.

There are other fundamentals driving the costs of healthcare... And mark my words, when we get a Republican president, if those fundamentals aren't changed - which means more than just "abolishing Obamacare" - then the Democrats are going to use the same strategy and point out the failure of the Republican party. I'd be very wary if I was a Republican running on an "abolish Obamacare" platform, as that celebration is only going to last long enough for the next round of health care cost increases.

Reversing Obamacare won't change it... It may give back high deductible plans with relatively low benefits, which DO cost less... But you can always buy less with less.. That's not a solution.

Removing Obamacare won't won't solve the implosion that will eventually occur with our heathcare system if things continue.

I don't trust the talk of either party. Being a politician is perhaps a good career and you get elected by promising the cut taxes and increase benefits, it's a pretty well established way of doing business. The political party differences simply seem to be which priorities and by how much you're going to spend or cut. Neither party has shown any capability of real fiscal restraint or ability to actually do the basic math required to keep this country solvent long term. Make promises, get elected, pass the debt on to future politicians and generations...
by cb1000rider
Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:42 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far
Replies: 76
Views: 9543

Re: Most enlightening insight into Obamacare so far

Abraham wrote:Once conservatives are in complete power, namely Presidential, is it naive to think Obamacare can't be overturned?
Or, since it slithered under the door of the bamboozled Americans, is it a done deal without recourse?
A few of the conservatives that I've been listening to don't want to scrap Obamacare, they just want to make some corrections.. Course, depending on your view, that may or may not be scrapping it.
Simply removing the mandatory requirement would render it largely useless, at least in my mind.

That being said, I don't find the pre-Obamacare rate curve any more appealing. We were well on our way to financially crippling most retirees that don't have some form of pension-based health care.... Conservatives should watch out for re-implementing a system that was on it's way to total implosion.

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