TexasCHLforum.com

How about the answer to life, the universe and everything?

Hint: it's Forty-Two

Point taken. I will only tell what I am legally required to and nothing else. Thanks for the linky.

@jrma: well, I wouldn't say freakishly tattooed. I have the tattoos as sort of an informal catharsis for what I experienced in my deployments. My left arm is almost a full sleeve and represents the things I saw from the time in the Marines. On my right arm I have a casualty bracelet thing for my battle buddy who was killed in Iraq on my wrist. The right arm will eventually be filled in with Army stuff.

Sort of like the expression "wearing your heart on your sleeve". Same thing, except I wear my life in the service on my sleeves. It sounds weird, but the ritual of telling my artist what I saw and then having her put it on my skin seems to help me stay copacetic. And it serves as a way to integrate strangers into a conversation about my service without making them uncomfortable.

The mohawk is a sort of self-defense mechanism for when I am on Fort Hood. I like to keep my hair short simply because of the heat and it is easier to maintain. I choose to wear a mohawk to let everyone on base know without having to ask me that I am not in the service and don't have to listen to orders or commands from soldiers anymore. It lets me breeze through the base without any drama at all which makes it totally worth it.

With all that said, my car does have Purple Heart plates on it. I like that because it costs only $3 a year to renew. The other nice benefit to it is that every other LEO I have ever runs across sees it and immediately asks me if I have any medical conditions instead of just assuming I am as crazy as I look. When I explain my pain issues I can visually see them relax to a degree. I understand that my appearance is outside of the norm but it all makes sense if you just ask me about it.

If, on the other hand, you assume that I am on drugs or super crazy simply because of the way I look, that's not going to work out well for anyone. All I ask for is the benefit of the doubt.

Just the facts ma'am...

For the record I probably was speeding and just paid the fine this morning. Not really trying to contest it and it would be a waste of everyone's time to do so anyway.

Also for the record I was within the boundaries of the law for my firearm and knew it.

He threatened me with a spurious arrest, was wrong and knew it. There was definitely no "plain view".

I called in a report to the officer's immediate supervisor and hopefully this is the last I hear about it. I easily could have made a much bigger deal out of it, but to what end? I can't win the internet and certainly don't have the time to educate every wayward LEO out there. I was satisfied that he would look into it. If he doesn't and someone else gets arrested for this I am sure there will be a reckoning. The NRA would love to pro bono a case like that.

I was not actually wrongfully arrested so I have no real grievance here. I was pretty mad the day of the encounter but have slept on it some and realize I don't want to waste any more effort on this issue. I have better things to do such as drink beer and play video games. Besides, you can't really fight city hall and I have no desire to attempt some Quixotic charge against the blue wall.

Finally, I am debating whether or not to inform next time something like this happens in the interim between now and when I get my CHL in the mail. What do you think? I know that I have no legal requirement to inform an LEO but still want to do the right thing at a traffic stop. I still strongly believe that full disclosure to a police officer is always the right thing to do if you are not breaking the law. My belief is this is shaken but not destroyed.

With all that said, I appreciate the support from the community. Thanks.

Not really interested in naming names here. I reported the individual, the video will be reviewed and hopefully someone will be artfully chewed out. I have a hard time naming names in an open forum like this because I do honestly want to respect everyone's privacy here. I demand a modicum of privacy and do not want to be a hypocrite by violating others privacy. It shouldn't be an issue in the future for me, which is all I care about.

There were some things that probably did not work in my favor. I have massive shrapnel wounds that cause constant pain in my groin. All the time. Because of this I tend to make funny faces and fidget a lot when I am talking. I can't help it. It hurts a lot sometimes. Strike one for that. I respect police but have no real fear of them. I have been shot at and blown up enough to not be fazed by anything short of imminent violent death. Everything else tends to roll right off my back. I know that LEOs are trained to dominate every situation in order to maintain control and keep safe. Strike two for my "attitude" I am sure. Finally, I have a LOT of tattoos and sport a mohawk. So, definitely outside the realm of normal appearance. Strike three. No real excuse for the way I was treated, but water under the bridge.

I do plan on taking steps to ensure this never happens again. I outlined them in my previous posting. I hope this doesn't happen again between now and the time my CHL finally comes in the mail. In the meantime, I fully intend to carry in my car under the MPA in the interim. I do tend to drive fast sometimes. My car is fun to drive and I like to take it fast far too often than is probably good for me. I got pulled over for it by Coppersas Cove PD and DPS but was let off with a warning. Time for me to slow it down a notch.

So I called the officer's watch commander, and she had no idea about the MPA law. She said she would arrest me if it was "easily accessible". I then called his Sergeant who was much more helpful. He said he is going to review the tape and let the officer know how the law works. He is also going to tell the captain of his division (traffic) to update all the patrol officers so this doesn't happen in the future. So, problem solved without lawyers, judges and an unfair ride to Bell County lockup. No feeling were hurt, I hope.

The level of ignorance about this statute is pretty frightening. I wonder if other departments have this problem? Scary. I would hate to be arrested for doing the right thing/following the law. Doesn't mean that I am going to leave my gun at home, however. One bad apple can ruin the bunch, but I do not want to paint the entire KPD as evil or something. I just don't like the town. Personal preference. Haven't had very many good experiences with Killeen in general.

Lessons learned:
1-the police are not your friends
2-the police probably don't know the law in this case
3-shut up and take it like a man when being harassed by an LEO even if you know he/she is wrong
4-keep multiple copies of the MPA law to have an immediate affirmative defense
5-use a hardbolted handgun holster so the police can't pull it into a visible area and declare it in "plain view"
6-place a copy of the MPA law with each firearm so there can be no confusion
7-record all encounters with LEOs
8-oh, yeah best to slow down so this isn't an issue in the future

That was fun, wasn't it?

The thing of it is he said the following:

"That is in plain sight and I could arrest you for open carry if I wanted to."

It wasn't and he can't. See, now I am mad and will definitely file a grievance. I understand that he cannot possibly know all the laws but I would hope they go over firearms laws, drug laws, family violence and traffic since it is mostly what they do. In this case he knew damn well that the thing was NOT in "plain sight" and that he had no real basis for an arrest. Ipso facto, harassment. I didn't lose my cool or give him a reason to further harass me but I was pretty mad and it probably showed.

I did speak to a criminal defense attorney and he informed me that "plain view" means just that. It has to be plainly visible, not hidden under clothes, seats or boxes. It's not like the gun was sitting on the passenger seat, locked and cocked. It was in a nondescript box behind the seat outside of ordinary view. He only noticed it after I told him of its location and after looking for a few seconds before he even spotted the box. The attorney said I should definitely file a grievance with the department and possibly a harassment lawsuit. He was irritated and wants to see the video.

Apparently the KPD unofficial policy is harassment and intimidation towards anyone with a concealed handgun under Texas House Bill 1815. There is no official policy but they are told to arrest anyone who has a gun concealed "within reach". They will admit to 1815 carry rights but insist that it be kept in the trunk. The KPD LT I spoke with said that since my car does not have a trunk or space that I cannot reach (REALLY small car) that I should not have it at all. Amazing. That's like telling someone they can drive a car, but only a particular kind of car.

In their own defense, KPD does patrol a crime ridden area of Texas and a lot of their officers have been killed in the line of duty. Far more than is normal for a town this size. So, I really do understand the paranoia. However, it's unacceptable to treat everyone like a criminal if you are an LEO in a dangerous area. Tough, no one twisted their arm to work there.

I am glad he didn't arrest me too but he would have been guilty of false arrest and unlawful imprisonment. I almost wish he would have. Any judge would have thrown out the case in about 5 minutes. Bell County lockup isn't pleasant but I don't sweat anything as long as no one is shooting at me.

@3dfxmm: The information I got about the "under control" provision is from the CHL class I took a month ago here in Texas. The police have the right to confiscate the weapon or arrest the owner apparently. I called DPS and they told me the same thing. So, 1815 is legal just to keep the firearm out of reach of passengers and hidden from plain sight. Also it cannot be on your person. In short, I was definitely within the boundaries of the law.

I think the Killeen PD lieutenant was confused about the issue. She did tell me that if the firearm was within reach that she would detain me and possibly arrest me if she felt unsafe. You can beat the charge but you can't beat the ride. That is why I caution anyone from going through Killeen with a handgun concealed under 1815 without a CHL. They apparently feel that they have the right to harrass you for following the law.

As far as telling the officer that I had a weapon in the car, I feel like it is just common courtesy. Better to tell the cops up front and get it out of the way than get arrested when they freak about a gun that you didn't tell them about. I am sympathetic to the stresses involved with their line of work and try to look at it from their point of view.

What I get for being polite I guess.

@ rottenapple: Thanks for the welcome! I enjoy being in Texas for the most part. The hot weather is good on my joint and shrapnel pain issues and the people here are polite and friendly to an extent that this WA state transplant is blown away by the common courtesy shown every day by regular people. Ain't from here but got here just as quick as I could as the saying goes.

San Antonio is nice, Dallas is hopping but far safer than any other big city I have been in and Austin is simply fun.

I do not like base towns in general. I have seen quite a few of them from my time in service and they are universally grubby and crime ridden. It has been that way for Beaufort SC, Oceaside CA, Wahiawa HI, 29 Palms CA, Gate 2 Street in Okinawa and here in Killeen. I have lived near all of those places and they are all pretty seedy. No idea why.

As for the arguing, well he did drop the matter pretty quickly when I called his bluff on the arrest. I wasn't rude but I will politely, firmly reject anyone shredding my Constitutional rights. I lived for 10 years with them gone while serving in the military and do not appreciate someone trying to abrogate my 4th Amendment rights because he is having a bad day or whatever. He was wrong and he knew it. He just wanted to intimidate me. Uncool.

Sorry, not trying for snark here. I am still a little nad about the incident. It's hard to describe his attitude but he was way out of line.

@texanjoker: the gun was in the box, lid shut, behind the seat, with the seatback put over it. There is no conceivable way that he could know what was in it. It's not even the manufacturer's box. Just a plain plastic lockbox. The only reason I told him was to make him more comfortable. I am sympathetic to LEOs and their work. Lord knows I have manned enough hasty TCPs downrange.

The reason this is such a big deal is that because this was a speed trap the entire encounter is almost certainly on video and audio. I shudder to think what this cowboy is doing when he isn't being recorded. Law enforcement has a duty to both be more informed of the law and follow it more closely than the average citizen. It's called rule of law and it applies to everyone.

The "outside of reach" provision is a point of law in the 1815 bill that means the car is an extension of your castle, you have a right to carry but other passengers do NOT have access to it at any time. That's where I think the confusion from their headquarters came from.

SECTION 1. Section 46.02, Penal Code, is amended by
amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsections (a-1) and (a-2) to
read as follows:
(a) A person commits an offense if the person [he]
intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or
her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle
that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

So this means that it cannot be under anyone else's control. Passengers and the public cannot have easy access to it. KPD is over the line insisting that it be kept out of reach of everyone. That is contrary to the spirit and letter of the law.

No lie there I was...

I was on the way to visit my tattoo artist to get my left arm sleeve filled in and I was pulled over by KPD. Apparently I was speeding. Fine, I pull over. Hands ten and two, calmly let the officer know that I was carrying a pistol in a lockbox in accordance with Texas House bill 1815 after handing over my information. That's when things got ugly.

For background, the pistol was in a lockbox, unlocked, behind my seat with the seatback down to cover the box. I have a two-seater car. The windows are tinted, the box is black, the upholstery is black and the back area of the car is definitely not easily seen. Hell, I could hide a SMAW-D back there and he never would have known. Point being, it definitely was not in "plain sight" by any stretch of the imagination.

So, the KPD guy gives me a funny look and asks me where the firearm is. Without moving my hands I calmly let him know it was behind the seat. He then stares for a few seconds and proceeds to inform me that the placement of the weapon is in "plain sight" and that he had probable cause to arrest me for open display. It did take him quite a bit of time to find the box even after I told him where it was, however.

I was stupefied. This is a big deal for me on a personal level. This blatant intimidation would have a lasting effect on me. An arrest and incarceration over a certain amount of time would automatically void my VA disability rating and SSDI I collect on account of being blown up in Iraq. I would lose my house, my car and would have a hard time convincing my wife that it was in her best interest to stay with me. In short, disastrous. Needless to say, I try to stay within the boundaries of the law at all times on account of this. As a matter of fact this is the first ticket for speeding I have ever received in my life. I have never been arrested or ticketed in my 36 years on this planet. I have three good conduct medals from the Army and the Marines. I try to be a good citizen.

I was in a good mood that morning until that threat, which hit be like a bolt of lightning from Mount Olympus. Trying to keep my cool yet at the same time totally furious that this person was willing to destroy my life with a spurious bit of harassment. I firmly told the officer that he was wrong, he knew he was wrong and that any charges filed against me would be dropped in about 5 minutes in front of the judge. This irritated him off and he told me that the only places he accepted a gun under the 1815 law were under the seat and in the glovebox.

He then asked me why I had a gun and looked at my like I was a retard for saying "self defense". Well, I probably have more experience than this guy carrying weapons, considering that I have 5 years in the Marines and 5 years in the Army as an infantryman. More used to having an automatic rifle and grenades but I think I am qualified to use a pistol without hurting myself.

There is no way I am putting a gun in my glovebox. I have don't have anything in there at all but putting a gun in there with insurance and such is a great way to quickly escalate a calm situation with an LEO into a much more serious one. Not smart. My seat space is small to the point that only a .380 or smaller weapon will easily fit in there.

After calming down, I called KPD headquarters to get clarification on the issue. I was passed off to four different people until I had an LT tell me that I was carrying legally in my car but the policy was concealed in the vehicle and "not within easy reach". She mentioned the trunk. She also mentioned that it was ultimately up to the officer's discretion whether or not to arrest me.

To which I replied that there is no provision in State, County or City laws stipulating that the gun has to be inaccessible. I also told her that if guns made her nervous, she should police in an area that criminalizes citizens using their 2nd Amendment rights. New York is a good place to go. I also told her that harassment of people who are not breaking the law is totally wrong and not a good idea if they want to have good community relations. I told her that law enforcement has the right to arrest anyone at any time for anything but that it doesn't mean the charges will stick. She was offended that I was telling her how to do her job. Folks, I am offended that I have to tell her how to do her job.

Just for the record, Texas Highway Patrol informed me that "plain sight" is a towel or shirt covering the firearm and that I was definitely in compliance with the law. He also told me that it defied the spirit of the law to insist that citizens place the firearm "outside of easy reach". He went on to say that harassing citizens with false arrest is not a good idea. No kidding. He further informed me that the entire encounter is most likely recorded on video and audio and that I should fiel a grievance with their headquarters. I think I might just do that.

In short, stay completely away from Killeen. The town is insanely corrupt, inefficient, and completely hostile to ordinary citizens carrying weapons to protect themselves. Which is ironic, considering that Killeen is one of those places I would feel uncomfortable being without a firearm on account of their hideous crime problem. I am furious that I am paying these people to harass me and am now boycotting the whole miserable base town. I will not spend another dime there unless I absolutely have to. I will not go there unless it is a life or death situation. Thank baby Jesus I don't have to live in that sunblasted hole.