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by Papa_Tiger
Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:46 pm
Forum: 2015 Legislative Session
Topic: HB910 on House Calendar for 3rd Reading
Replies: 1040
Views: 153808

Re: HB910 on House Calendar for 3rd Reading

Saw this article linked on Facebook and found the response to it to be VERY good:

http://kxan.com/2015/04/22/police-assoc ... forcement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yesterday, I was asked by our friend Erin Cargile at KXAN Austin News to comment on the Open Carry Bill and the Amendment that ensures individuals soon to be exercising lawful Open Carry will be able to enjoy the protections from unreasonable search and seizure we are all afforded under the 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution. My comments were fairly straightforward and honestly nothing very earth shattering, but I am always happy to share my insight and opinion. What truly terrified me was a comment made by the Director of CLEAT. He stated, "They (Law Enforcement) might just say, ‘Do you (someone Open Carrying) have a license for your weapon?’ And then you’d say, ‘Yes, I do, and here it is,' And then that’s the end of that." Frankly, that mentality causes me great concern. How anyone that represents such a large Law Enforcement Association can be okay with saying (and apparently believeing) it is okay to stop someone without ANY probable cause, simply to see if MAYBE they are breaking a law, baffles me.

As a freedom loving society, we would be up in arms if someone suggested, "Since so many people drive without a valid drivers license, or without proper insurance, it is acceptable to randomly stop anyone driving a car, simply to verify they are not breaking any laws." and our indignation would be well founded. There MUST be probable cause that a crime is being, or has been, committed before free people are subject to being detained. It is as much a part of our Constitutional Rights, as Freedom of Religion, and Texas has long stood as a State that fervently supports individual freedoms. Our great State has long held that a "sobriety checkpoint" constitutes an unreasonable search and seizure and is a violation of the State's interpretation of the 4th Amendment of the U. S. Constitution. The State accepts that while such an effort MAY prevent some drunk driving, the possible public good simply does not outweigh our rights, as free citizens, to move about without being stopped and asked, "Papers please." How many people are killed as a result of drunk driving every year, and yet the State still places greater value on the freedom to move about unmolested. Is the mere possibility that someone might be open carrying a firearm illegally, and some imagined value of prevention of that, worthy of suspension of our rights - however short termed that suspension might be? This has not yet even been signed into law in Texas, and some are already touting the need to ask the public to be okay with forfeiture of their rights.

As a society, we eschew racial profiling, as we intelligently realize the focus should be placed on actions - not the color of the skin. As a society, we should be equally appalled when someone states, "Hey, I realize you are doing something that is 100% legal, but I don't like it and it makes me uncomfortable, so I am going to be okay with suspending your rights until you prove you are not guilty."

Have we truly given up on the concept of innocent until proven otherwise?

-Kent Morrison
by Papa_Tiger
Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:30 am
Forum: 2015 Legislative Session
Topic: HB910 on House Calendar for 3rd Reading
Replies: 1040
Views: 153808

Re: HB910 on House Calendar for 3rd Reading

Wes wrote:I don't think he is necessarily saying a chl holder. Any crime that is discovered because a person was stopped for open carrying, even open carrying itself, could be tossed out because the cop did not have cause to stop the person. CHL aside. Imagine a murder suspect who was picked up just for properly openly carrying and the arrest and murder weapon is tossed out in court because the evidence was illegally obtained. Thus a murderer might go free. DA most certainly won't be happy. Now, I'm no lawyer but I beleive this to be what he is saying, and honestly it makes sense to me.
If it is a murder suspect, they already have probable cause to stop you - you match the description of a person of interest.

The ONLY thing this amendment does is prevent harassment by the police of people open carrying a handgun. If you are stopped and asked to identify, they will need to have probable cause other than the fact that you are carrying a handgun openly. If they state they have probable cause, regardless of how flimsy it seems, record the encounter, comply after notifying them of the law and go about your business. It will be sorted out VERY quickly if you do have a CHL and aren't confrontational. If you feel your rights have been violated, speak with the appropriate department, file an FOIA request for the stop including any 911 calls pertaining to it and build a case that it was unjustified. When you have a solid case, take the officer and the department to court.

Frankly I don't think it will be a big deal. Open carry will require some amount of education of the public as well as training of the 911 dispatchers to ask questions and calm down panicked hoplophobes, but I anticipate it will be worked out relatively quickly. It may take a bit more time in urban areas with populations over 1,000,000 uh, I mean 750,000 no wait, 175,000. ;-)

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