Search found 9 matches

by NcongruNt
Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:39 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

Venus Pax wrote:NCongruent,
Would you consider bolting a safe to the inside of your vehicle and storing it there? Many here have done it successfully.

Also, have you considered carrying a stun gun?
(And if you do this, keep the info to yourself.)
I have a lockbox in my van already. I am also considering a small pistol safe bolted underneath the seat, yes.

As far as the stun gun goes, I don't see it as a useful tool. I feel confident that I can handle myself in a physical confrontation. A stun gun isn't gonna help me if someone pulls a gun on me. In a situation where I might find the need to use one (multiple attackers), I can just as easily see myself having it used against me because of the close contact it requires.
by NcongruNt
Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:39 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

Mike1951 wrote:And you've learned the hard way why it's best not to say anything to anyone!
Yup. *sigh*
by NcongruNt
Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:56 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

So an update on this...

Apparently, the coworker told my manager something... not sure what. He said that he heard that I was carrying a handgun at work. I told him no, that I was not, and that I never had. I explained that I was looking into company policies, as my CHL was pending. He told me that having a gun would put others at higher risk, introducing an element of escalation in conflict. I promptly explained to him that a gun is an absolute last resort, only used when life is threatened, and that I would never pull my gun unless there is imminent risk to the life of myself or someone else, and there was no other alternative. I was told not to bring it on the premises unless I was given permission by him.

So that's that.
:sad:
by NcongruNt
Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:10 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

KBCraig wrote:
NcongruNt wrote:My understanding is that the notice from an employer does have to be the 30.06 language specifically, only that carrying in general is prohibited. CHL instructors, any clarification?
I'm not an instructor. I'm not even a CHL, just someone with an intense interest in reading and understanding the law.

That said, PC 30.06 is about "criminal trespass by a concealed handgun licensee". The section is clear about what notice is required: any written notice (whether it's a sign in 1" letters, or a workplace policy in 12 pt. Times New Roman) must contain the exact 30.06 wording to be legally binding.

And 30.06 allows any verbal notice to be sufficient, with no specific language required. Anyone in authority telling you verbally that "you can't bring any guns here" is sufficient notice.

Of course, proving that you were verbally notified, and that you heard and understood the notice, would be something for the lawyers to fight about.

All of this has nothing to do with getting fired. You can be fired for having a gun whether or not any notice was given. You can be fired because the boss woke up on the wrong side of the bed and decides it must be All Your Fault.
and posted in the "Need some opinions please" thread at http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 7459#67459 :
9mmGuy wrote:
NcongruNt wrote:We had some similar discussion on this topic regarding a post of mine (http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... sc&start=0)in this forum. Does the handbook/policy specifically have the 30.06 wording in it? If no, you are not legally obliged to not carry unless you are verbally told by your manager that you cannot carry.
The situation you're in seems to be far and above better than mine, as you report directly to the owner, and he is a CHL holder. If he does not tell you specifically that you cannot carry, and the specific 30.06 wording is not in the handbook, then you are legally covered. I'd personally be comfortable carrying in such a situation. My guess is that a CHL-carrying boss isn't gonna fire you for carrying, and he should know the law well enough to tell you specifically that you cannot carry if those were his wishes.
No. it can be written or verbal from an employer. the company manuel does not have to be 30.06 wording.
Is there someone who can give an authoritative answer?
by NcongruNt
Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:05 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

KBCraig wrote:
I'm not an instructor. I'm not even a CHL, just someone with an intense interest in reading and understanding the law.

That said, PC 30.06 is about "criminal trespass by a concealed handgun licensee". The section is clear about what notice is required: any written notice (whether it's a sign in 1" letters, or a workplace policy in 12 pt. Times New Roman) must contain the exact 30.06 wording to be legally binding.

And 30.06 allows any verbal notice to be sufficient, with no specific language required. Anyone in authority telling you verbally that "you can't bring any guns here" is sufficient notice.
That's good to know. I know for sure that I was never given any documentation with the specific 30.06 language, and that I have never been told by any member of management that I am not allowed to carry. The Austin office has been like the red-headed stepchild of the company, historically. I doubt anyone in Chicago took the time to look up specific handgun laws in Texas and then work the specific language requirements into a document. I will get the documentation, of course, but I think it's highly unlikely that 30.06 is written into the company manual.
by NcongruNt
Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:46 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

Re: workplace concealed carry issues

flintknapper wrote:
Sounds like 6th street in Austin, or that general area.

I would not be without my pistol under similar circumstances.

Don't ask, Don't tell.
Right you are. A few blocks East of the interstate.
by NcongruNt
Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:37 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

I think I am going to take everyone's advice and not mention it specifically, and just get my hands on all the policy documentation I can and take it from there. If the other employee (I'm never mentioning anything CHL-related to her again) pushes the issue with management for some reason (like she suspects I am carrying), then I guess I'll deal with it then, as well as pulling the "you have us work in a dangerous area rampant with crime, sometimes alone with no steps taken to ensure our safety" card.

My understanding is that the notice from an employer does have to be the 30.06 language specifically, only that carrying in general is prohibited. CHL instructors, any clarification?
by NcongruNt
Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:28 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

txinvestigator wrote:If your company does not prohibit carry, and your co-worker complains about your carrying you can either tell her to pound sand, or let her know that if some angry ex-employee, disgruntled customer, scorned lover/former lover of another employee or just simpled crazed gunman comes in to kill people, since you will be the ONLY one in a position to defend yourself that you will be sure to protect HER first.

Quite frankly, if I am obeying law and policy I don't care who my carrying bothers.
Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. My workplace, however, is not the typical workplace environment. We have about a dozen or so employees all performing various facets of the same work, and we are a pretty close-knit group. At any time, there's not likely to be more than 7 or so of us in the office at the same time. Part of the reason for this is the absence of normal corporate infrastructure at our office (no HR, secretaries, management, etc. - with the exception of the VP who has a pretty hands-off approach to management) because we do so well at our jobs without it, and I fear that drawing this out or telling my coworker to "pound sand" may cause a drastic change in that environment, and putting the working relationships of our office into an uncomfortable and resentful undertone.

All of this may be a moot point, if corporate says I cannot carry. I'm going to be talking with the VP come Monday and see where it goes from there.
by NcongruNt
Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:09 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: workplace concealed carry issues
Replies: 42
Views: 5993

workplace concealed carry issues

Sorry if this is covered somewhere else, I didn't find anything when searching...

I'm looking for advice or insight into anyone else's experience in this type of situation:

I am waiting on my CHL app to process, so I was looking into the policies at work to see if there was anything prohibiting me from carrying at work, once I get my license.

My troubles began when I was searching for the employee manual on the company intranet. I asked a co-worker (over a text chat) if it was immediately available somewhere without having to contact HR and request it (today is a Saturday, and they won't be available until Monday). I subsequently found what I believe is the current manual and started searching for policies, clarifying to my coworker that I was searching for policies regarding our office.

Background on the coworker: She knows that I am applying for my CHL, and since we'd had discussions regarding her getting a handgun for home defense, as well as possibly going to the range together, it didn't seem to be of much consequence discussing CHL-related things with her.

As I was searching through the manual, she asked me what I was specifically looking for. As I had discussed CHL-related things with her before, I didn't see a problem telling her. So I told her that I was trying to see if there was anything prohibiting me from carrying at work once I got my CHL. Suddenly, she seems to turn very ANTI, and tells me that she would throw a fit if I did, and that she does NOT want me carrying. She states that there is no reason for me to have it (as we work indoors all day, etc.), telling not to ever bring it on the property "at ALL", telling me I should get a taser instead if I felt I needed it. This came as a shock to me, and as it didn't seem to be a rational argument, I didn't give her any response after that. I did e-mail the HR manager (located in Chicago), asking when a good time would be to contact her, but not stating what it was specifically about, other than that it was a request clarification on policy.

Now, some background on my workplace. Our facility is not located in the best of areas, and crime is relatively high where we are. We have had 6 vehicle breakins to employee vehicles in the last month, mine included. We are located across the street from a bar, and in the general vicinity of many more, with drunk people walking next to our building coming from those bars during the late shift hours. Arguments and near-fights break out in the street directly in front of our building regularly. Theft is high, and there are lots of transients roaming around our building at all hours of the day, but more notably during the night and the early morning. Unlike the facilities in other cities, ours does not have security guards, and is very minimally staffed during the night time hours (such as when I work).

It is not an implausible that an assault could occur to an employee going to or from his/her vehicle (the parking lot is adjacent to an alley).

The company is based in Chicago where there is no such thing as Concealed Carry, so I'm not aware of any policy against it. This may put me at a disadvantage because this may make the company ANTI by default. If they do say that it is allowable to carry, I then face the issue of my coworker vehemently demanding that I do not carry at work. I do not feel comfortable leaving my handgun in the car, due to the breakins. I do have a secure lockbox, though access to it is limited to either crawling over a seat, or opening a sliding door (it's a van), which would seem rather conspicuous to me, either way. I do suppose I could install a new one up front (under the seat, etc.), though leaving the gun in the car would mostly defeat the point of having it in the first place.

If any of you have had a similar problem, I welcome your insights to how you've dealt with the situation.

Thanks in advance.

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