Disparity of force (3 on 1), blows to the head, kicking while down, and bodyslamming all qualify as deadly force, in my opinion. As I understand your situation, I'd have no problem drawing on 3 guys making advances towards me immediately after one of them physically assaulted me. Your window of opportunity appears to have been at that specific point. Likely, drawing on them would have warded off further attack. If they advance on you once you've drawn, it's quite obvious that they've got some serious intent to harm you (and possibly your wife).Will wrote:That is a very good question. I have replayed the event in my mind many times. They never verbalized any threat. They never produced any weapons. What occurred was really just the unlawful use of FORCE not DEADLY FORCE (unless you attempt to apply disparity of force or blows to the head as a reason it qualified as deadly force). As the situation actually happened, I don't think I would have been able to draw at any point except POSSIBLY when I was on the ground being kicked and stomped. HOWEVER.....If this was to happen again tomorrow I would NOT ALLOW myself to be caught by surprise, verbally challenged his approach, watch for the production of a weapon and go from there.hsp wrote:Will,
Very sorry to hear what you experienced and glad you are ok. I do have a question for you. If you had been armed, do you think you would have had time to draw your gun as the event unfolded as it did. Sounds like you were being attacked in multiple directions during the entire event. Seem like the only time you could have drawn would have been from the very beginning or at the very end.
JR
I'm sorry if I doesn't answer your question. But in that situation, had I drawn and shot them all down just from the approach, obviously I would have been hung from the yardarm. Perhaps merely drawing the firearm would have sent them running. Or it could have escalated it to a 3 on 1 gun-battle. If I drew and fired after, it might be construed that I was just mad I got my butt kicked. All of these things have run through my mind. My ultimate conclusion was that I would:
1) notice the threat BEFORE it was IN MY FACE
2) verbally express that I wanted no trouble, and to back away
3) if the advance of three men towards my wife and me continued, I would draw the weapon(they ain't tryin' to give me a hug)
4) if they run, good(not everybody is afraid of guns pointed at them). if they attempt to produce weapons, fire. if they just continue to approach, they are idiots and I'm going to have to make a difficult split second decision based on the totality of the situation.
Hopefully regardless of outcome a jury would side with a married couple having dinner rather than 3 street thugs looking for trouble.
I agree that most people do not have adequate situational awareness to see an attack coming. I will also say that you can't always see it coming. This appears to have been a planned, coordinated attack. I bet this isn't these fellows' first rodeo. I also agree that calling the police immediately (and giving plate numbers, if anyone got theme) would have been an excellent idea. It seems that you agree, and as you said - you weren't thinking straight.
Welcome to the forum, there is a lot of useful information and a multitude of helpful folks here.