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Dave2 wrote:

Strat9mm wrote:I wouldn't trust any of them, nor ANYONE who defends them.

Don't you want to know someone a bit before not trusting them?

Axe murderers usually hide in plain sight, and are really nice guys... until that axe is swung.

So were they really all that nice after all?

Trust is usually earned.

Nothing in history or practice or writings of that 'peaceful religion' should engender any trust whatsoever.

bdickens wrote:Just so we know, the crime of treason is very narrowly defined in the Constitution:

Article III.
Section. 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte ... cript.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Aid and comfort to the enemy... on the testimony of two witnesses.

I'm thinking, Jane Fonda, people who visited Saddam Hussein and who went to Iraq to act as human shields in their defense, and really, anyone who gave bribes, err, 'aid' to countries, at the very least, AFTER they murdered or raped or otherwise harmed American citizens or soldiers.

cb1000rider wrote:Strat9mm,

I believe that mainstream Islam is peaceful. I believe that the acts of a few shouldn't condemn an entire religion...

I don't believe that just because we're afraid of a few people that it justifies the mistreatment of a majority...

I believe that we as a country have done other groups of people wrong historically. I think we've also done wrongs as a Christian religion...

Religious wars are an really an oxymoron to me...

To rail and vilify 1.5 billion people in this world... Yea, I think you're wrong there.

The tenets and acts of the founders and followers of that religion should be more than enough proof to change your belief. But if the past isn't sufficient, trust me, the future will more than prove just how wrong you are. As for the 'few' people who should not condemn their religion, does that include the men, women and children who dance and have parties in the streets when innocent Americans are killed, as in 9/11?

As for who is afraid of 'a few people', don't count me among them. If history and current events don't prove them an 'evil axis', well, as I just 'said', in the very near future, they will leave NO ONE any doubt as to how 'peaceful' they really are.

As far as Christianity (so-called) is concerned, it has next to no resemblance to the Christianity described in the New Testament, as practiced by Christ, the Apostles, and both Jewish, and non-Jewish converts to Christianity. No one considers the Old Testament as a set of Laws, principles and examples which should be followed, even though it's obvious that is exactly what the New Testament example shows. Case in point, today is the First Day of The Feast of Tabernacles, also known as Sukkot. Christ, the Apostles and ALL converts to "New Testament Christianity' kept this Holy Day, along with the other Holy Days, including the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread, DECADES after Christ died. Paul even taught Corinthians (Greek converts to Christianity) how to properly keep the Passover, even warning them that many of them became sick, some had even died because they kept the Passover in the wrong manner. But next to no Christian today even knows about, let alone keeps these Days holy, let alone the Sabbath Holy, even though Christ IS the Lord of the Sabbath (which incidentally, is on Saturday, not Sunday).

So it becomes obvious that the blame for most of the wars started by 'Christianity' (so-called), belongs on something, or someone other than the Bible, let alone God. The Book of James, especially Chapter 4, addresses the cause of many 'Christian' wars. Historically speaking, it mostly belongs on the rulers of Europe who basically acted like a bunch of self-serving despots, hence the founding of the United States of America, by CHRISTIANS, who in drafting the Constitution did their best to prevent anyone from using ANY religion, ANY person, or GROUP of persons, or any political party, let alone ANY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, to deny people their rights. At least it worked for a while.

Fully half of this country denies God, and actually support the removal of any references to God and Creation in government and schools, and rail like banshees when God is mentioned in public media. And all this despite the numerous references to the God and the Bible in our Laws, writings, and even symbols left in our money and buildings by the Founding Fathers of the nation. They understood and believed alot more of God and the Bible than modern 'Christianity' does today, and the signs and symbols they left behind, prove it. Yet we have fully half this nation on a campaign to deny God, the Bible and support muslim as well as socialist indoctrination in our schools, against all that the Founding Fathers believed in.

So now God and Christianity can be slandered and libeled w/o reproach, but persecution comes when Islam is simply exposed for what it is by their own history, tenets, and practices. Some say God has blessed and protected this country. Others (if not most) would say they did it on their own, and God deserves no thanks for the benefits of being born an American, especially in this day and age. So it seems that most people have no desire to obey God, believe God, let alone serve God, or even thank God. As if they all really didn't need his protection or blessings, because again, 'we' did it all on our own.

The only reason we don't have even MORE wars around the world led by despotic tyrants bent on conquering their neighbors and more, is because of the restraining influence and possibility of reprisals by the United States of America. We -are- the ONLY superpower and the ONLY nation in the history of the earth who has NOT gone out to war to conquer and enslave, nor for profit, but always in defense of others, at GREAT EXPENSE TO OURSELVES. We even spent huge sums to rebuild antagonist nations who had LEARNED THEIR LESSONS, i.e. Germany and Japan. If that isn't Godly, I don't know what is. Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan don't count. Because though we give them large sums of money, they still hate the United States and their people still kill our citizens and soldiers. To call any of those nations 'friends', would be a denial of reality. Oddly enough, unless I'm mistaken, the nation of Israel has ONLY gone to war in their own defense, and it seems the only time the United Nations intervenes for 'peace', is when the outnumbering antagonists start getting slaughtered. The U.N. has become a joke and really, an enemy of the Israeli's and the United States, but that's another story.

So the question becomes, hypothetically speaking, what do people think would happen if God (if of course He existed, and yes, He does) removed His blessings and protection? How peaceful do you think that 'peaceful religion' will be then? What would happen if God Himself fought AGAINST the United States?

We're about to find out.

This after all, is not a religious lesson, it's about to become a severe history lesson.

cb1000rider wrote:

Strat9mm wrote:In case anybody hasn't noticed, the people in Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world for that matter, have NOT relented of their hatred of the West. They kill and rape us anytime they have a chance, when they're not too busy killing each other in the name of their 'peaceful religion'.

Stratman,
Do you actually know any Muslims? I do. None of them have tried to kill me yet. Please remove the ones that I know from your "rest of the Muslim world" list.

We locked up the Japanese Americans during WWII. All the "Japs" wanted to kill us too, remember? Maybe we should have eradicated those civilians?

And if you want to make a case for a civilized and peaceful religion, make sure you review Christianity in the full historical context.

BTW, I agree with a lot of what you're saying otherwise - but when you indicate that almost 1.5 billion people are all out to kill us, I tend to ignore the rest of the context....

Yes, and I also a know of quite a few Muslim sympathizers, many of whom are in positions of Civilian and Military leadership in this country.

They put the welfare of MUSLIMS above the welfare of Americans, including of our war-fighters.

You don't REALLY believe all the problems with the VA taking care of our people, is ONLY because of paperwork, do you?

Perhaps people REALLY believe that the IRS and NSA scandals aren't really scandals and that conservatives were never exclusively targeted, and the NSA isn't bugging all American's just to catch a few terrorists.

Where EXACTLY do you think our traitorous rules of engagement come from? A pack of traitorous, cowardly, obsequious morons bent on APPEASEMENT would be the correct answer.

And we all know what we should do when someone threatens the well-being of an American citizen right? Of course we do, we put our guns down, hand over the money, our women, and then bend over and take it. Yeah, that's about what we're doing now. And it's working out great, isn't it? Have we won the war over there yet? We NEVER will via appeasement policies which favor the ENEMY above our own war-fighters.

Anyone who doesn't see the history of Islam and the results of their religious tenets and recognize it all for what it is, is frankly, deluded.

The time is coming soon when the SURVIVORS of this nation will wish they had done alot more than suck up to these 'people' of this 'peaceful religion' as if they were 'buddies' and it was just the 'radicals' who were the only baddies among them.

You just wait for it.

As for the Japanese, guess what, they were the enemies. Sure, there were some who put America's interests above their own nation's and fought alongside American's. Good for them! But who's to say if the others had NOT been put in interment camps that were would not have been severe and numerous cases of sabotage in the U.S. at the time. So we declare war on a specific population group, and we should let them run around this country free to do as they please? Are you kidding me? Does that really make ANY sense at all? As it was, we interred them, we firebombed their cities, along with the cities of Germany and treated them as they treated their enemies, with no concern for 'collateral damage'. As a result, we not only won the war, we FORCED the survivors of both Japan and Germany to rethink their ways. The entire world can see the results.

Since we don't conduct war in same manner anymore, I fail to see why anyone but the stupid, the blind, and the idiotic would expect the same results we had in WW-II.

After over 10 years of war not a single heart or mind has been won. Because contrary to your misguided beliefs 'sir', you can't win the hearts and minds of the heartless and mindless. And that is exactly what it takes to be muslim.

You don't hear of Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu or Baptist homicide bombers.

You don't hear of Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, or Baptist or Protestant Christians dancing in the streets, MEN, WOMEN and CHILDREN, when American CIVILIANS get blown up.

There's only ONE 'religion' (and I use the term loosely) which offers 72 virgins in heaven to debase for their male homicide bombers. The women, get NOTHING. You'd think women's groups around the U.S. would up in arms against Islam, considering that muslim women get treated WORSE then chattel. Now we know whose side these women's groups are on, and it's not ours. Anyway, why would ANYONE defend such a religion?

You want to whitewash a religion whose host nations and houses of 'religious worship' breath threats of death and destruction against Americans, Christians and Jews on an almost daily basis, then feel free.

After all, this is a free country and we all do, or SHOULD, have the freedom of speech, unless of course, one speaks out against homosexuals, muslims, LGBT's or any of the numerous ethnic minorities who make a overly large contribution to the crime rate in this country out of all proportion to their population. And of course, if one defends the God of the Old or New Testament, or the Bible with too many words, then we also lose our freedom of speech, even in this forum. It seems only Christianity and Jews and 2nd Amendment advocates can be slandered without repercussions.

Freedom of speech, yeah, that's working out really well.

That Arab Spring thing sure doesn't seem to be working out too well for all those Arab nations. All the people get, are another corrupt set of tyrannical rulers to replace the current ones.

Yeah, it sure is a PEACEFUL religion.

Funny how that is the only religion that seems to be doing all the be-headings even among their own people.

And if that is what they do to their OWN people, how do you think they're going to treat YOU?

They themselves coined the term 'useful fools'.

But just to answer the question, referencing their own threats in the news lately, you either convert, and become a slave -literally- and pay the JIZya tax, or you'll have your head handed to you, LITERALLY.

There's a joke there, I'm sure.

Peaceful religion. Give me a break.

I wouldn't trust any of them, nor ANYONE who defends them.

And that now includes you.

Then again, maybe I'm just full of it and all wrong.

History will decide.

If people don't have the wit to see what is coming and learn FROM history and ACT on it, they just lessened their chances of survival.

Neville Chamberlain, was a traitor and an idiot. As a matter of fact, John Kerry reminds me of Chamberlain. And that's not good! All of Britain saw what was coming and allowed the Jews to be slaughtered and REFUSED to step in. They paid the price, but not YET in full. Even AFTER the war, Britain (no longer 'Great' Britain), STILL sided with muslims against the Jews, so the future does NOT bode well for them. Muslims take a dim view of cowards, and that is after all, what traitors are, cowards.

FDR saw what Britain was suffering, and delayed our own entrance into the war until FORCED into it. FDR lost his life in mid-term, and was replaced by a relative NOBODY. Coincidence, perhaps, perhaps not. But most people don't know that FDR was asked REPEATEDLY by MacArthur MONTHS before the war started, to send ships to evacuate our troops and Philippine civilians who helped us. FDR REFUSED.

So don't put ALL the blame on the Japanese for the Bataan Death March. MUCH of it falls on FDR, another democrat "female kitty", and traitor.

EVERYONE can, or SHOULD be able to see what is coming, and yet we're doing next to nothing about it. Nothing EFFECTIVE that is, except sending BILLIONS in BRIBES, er 'aid' to all those countries who hate us. And if that is not the height of stupidity and TREASON, I don't know what is.

Yeah, we learned our lessons well. Not.

Abraham wrote:Strat9mm,

It's not the substance of what you have to say, it's your frenetic, Speaker's Corner In Hyde Park London style, I was mildly teasing...

Frenetic?

When it all goes to.. poop, everyone will wish they had been even more 'frenetic' than I have, in demanding more from our leaders instead of a never ending pack of lies.

This administration has not only succeeded in betraying their own constituents, they've succeeded in filling the military leadership with a pack of fools, including that bozo Chuck Hagel, who couldn't fight a decent war if all they had to do was push a button. They'd all refuse. But they have NO problems acting like hypocrites going after anyone under them who shows any contempt for the enemy who despise us, rape, torture and murder our citizens, soldiers, and even their own people. As an example, see what happened to Capt. James Clement. Here's a quote:

"Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel issued a statement Monday supporting Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos following allegations that Amos told subordinates he wanted those involved in the urination video case to be "crushed" at general courts martial."

Allegations? Has ANYONE read the news reports? It wasn't just Gen. Amos, it was others exerting UNDUE command influence in this case. And yet you won't find ANY of those hypocrites brought before a courts martial themselves for it.

Chuck Hagel is a gutless stooge, and those under him seem to have no problems hanging their own men out to dry, instead of DEFENDING them.

Our government doesn't SEEM to be supporting our enemies, they ARE supporting them will billions in BRIBES, er, I meant, 'aid' while they work hard to put our own armed forces at as much disadvantage as possible.

Funny how after all the hubub died down after Chuck took office, that he made the announcement of even more cutbacks to the Military. Talk about a stooge. I'm really hoping it took this administration a ton of work to find someone who would be willing to betray, and castrate our Armed Forces as is being done now.

How about the story of Dakota Meyer (MOH) and Capt. William Swenson, who has NOT received the MOH even though he had already been recommended for it. Perhaps it's because of his (and Dakota's) substantiated complaints as to how their own command support teams REFUSED to send artillery (and other) support which would have saved the lives of the four Americans we lost in that battle, along with numerous other Afghan allies. Leon Panetta doesn't have a whole lot of credibility as far as I'm concerned. He's also a coward and a traitor who won't accept responsibility for his (in)actions in Benghazi, and elsewhere. Panetta and Hagel seem to REFUSE to honor the actions of Capt. Swenson at the battle of Ganjigal. The Army brass now believe Capt. Swensons actions were exaggerated. Perhaps we should send the army brass, and leon and chuck out there in the field under the same situation and see how much they enjoy their own hypocritical and traitorous rules of engagement they endanger our warfighters with.

We don't do anything to the ENEMY when our own people and warfighters, even our AMBASSADOR, are tortured, RAPED and murdered in hideous ways.

But one of our guys urinates on the wrong person, and suddenly our Military and Government leaders turn into FERVENT muslim sympathizers and defenders.

If that's not the height of HYPOCRISY, I don't know what is.

Then again, perhaps no one really gives a hoot.

Conspiracy theories? People wish.

It's called 'the news'.

Just an FYI, but the technical points made in my prior 'verbose' post, were based on -experience-.

This isn't a technical forum, but if anyone visited one and attempted to debate any of the technical points that were made, well, let's just say it would be an enlightening experience.

The I.T. departments of even medium sized businesses, enjoy some technical capabilities that most people frankly, are not even aware of.

Now with all the revelations being made about NSA capabilities, I'm wondering why anyone was even surprised and acting like it's never been done before.

Please.

Unfortunately, nothing is really 'private'.

I still find it hard to believe that courts in this country have ruled that we have no expectation of privacy.

That's one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard, ever.

The twisted reasoning required to make such a decision defies all logic, common sense and decency.

rbwhatever1 wrote:I like Israel. Awesome people and awesome soldiers. Pulled into Haifa many times for port calls over the years and the people are amazing. Israeli Citizens would line up to take American servicemen to their homes for a home cooked meal when the ships pulled in. A Lady named Gilla used to run the USO along with a lanky bearded guy with an "Uncle Sam beard" and a black leather jacket with hundreds of pins whose name escapes me. Gilla was entirely responsible for building the Marine Beirut Memorial on Mount Carmel for the 241 Americans who were killed in the barracks bombing. She planted 241 olive trees in a corridor facing towards Beirut from that mountain. She would not let anyone forget those Americans and since I lost a lot of friends in that explosion I always remember her when I think of them. She was a mother to all who entered that USO and she would never close the doors when the 6th Fleet was in port as long as a serviceman was on liberty there. Cold beer, good food and good people in Israel. Did I mention the beautiful girls? Better stop while I'm ahead....

Israel is as close as you will get to a "Foreign Country" in the mirror image of the United States...

Agreed with every one of your points.

The Israeli's are just awesome.

They remind me daily of the Founding Fathers of the United States, and all the Patriots since then, including our heroic and selfless warfighters, who put themselves and all they had on the line for their brothers and sisters and their country, and God.

Thank you, for them.

Abraham wrote:Why am I reminded of "War and Peace"?

Oh right, verbosity...

You didn't bother addressing any of the points I made.

But no matter. I already knew what the score was. And we've already lost.

Thanks for keeping your head stuck in the sand.

It's undignified to say the least, and it does leave one 'open' to certain even worse 'indignities'.

Have fun with that.

You and the prior poster just proved the very last point in the post.

JP171 wrote:Lovely Tirade Strat9mm just lovely

Tirade?

Odd but, you didn't even attempt to disprove a single thing that was written, as if you ever could.

You must think that aiding and abetting, and even paying billions of dollars to the enemies of the U.S. while they kill our people is the right thing to do.

It's a bit obvious you already drank the Kool-aid.

That's too bad.

JP171 wrote:conspiracy theorists unite now and bring the Monolithic US GUBBERMINT to its knees!!!! we must remember to keep our tinfoil and copper outer wear on and sealed and bonded so that THE GUBBERMINT kaint finger it out what we is doin.


ok nuff with the conspiracy stuff, it isn't getting old its been old. yea the report probably says a lot of things and most of it will be out of context. the alphabet agencies that make up the government can't find their own butt with a map both hands and a flashlight even with a 1 hour block of instruction. so wail on and when it never happens your going to be a scientologist, but remember don't drink the purple kool aid

I don't know what you're on, or what demon seems to be possessing you at the moment and preventing you from being more lucid, but it seems most people including those in Congress seem to be on the same stuff.

To catch a few terrorists, our own government has been shown to be capturing pretty much ALL telephone and internet communications of ALL U.S. Citizens. Here's a tip, the ENEMIES who HATE us and want to rape, torture, behead and enslave us, are -overseas-. Go bug them. Pun not intended. Some like to brag about taking the head off the snake, or of 'winning hearts and minds'. None of it has really worked, has it? It never will. There's only one way to make war and win, and it requires NO concern for collateral damages. Anyone who disagrees, has history to show them them their error. After all, the enemy didn't mind killing about 3,000 American CIVILIANS, so why should we care about theirs? In fact, the enemy has rarely ever cared about civilian casualties. And only when WE have, have we lost wars.

Back to the point, as for bugging the entire United States of America, and using tech companies to do it, doesn't that make the average citizen who is being bugged, an ADVERSARY by default? The next person that says that they only get 'metadata', is an idiot. Who REALLY believes they only trap the date time and end points of either a phone call or any internet traffic? Is anyone really that naive, or are they just play-acting for some reason? And now we see that they have had active relationships (coerced or otherwise) with tech companies to provide access to hardware and software via 'back-doors', and we still have 'doubting Thomases' who don't believe all this stuff is going on, and worse, others in Congress who seem powerless to act?

Just an FYI, but there are many companies out there who have their own I.T. departments who can not only monitor EVERYONE's internet activities, but also have the ability to decrypt your communications and see your passwords, including banking passwords, if they wanted to. And this is with standard commercially available hardware. There is security software you can buy for yourself that will turn on your camera on your computer or laptop and track it if it gets stolen. Even the State Department warned visitors to China during their Olympics to NOT turn on their Blackberries, because the Chinese could hack into them and turn on the mic's and the camera's w/o the user's knowledge, and continue to use that infected phone when the person returned to the U.S.

So if a regular company can do these things, and the Chinese were already DOING these things YEARS AGO, what do you think OUR government can do? Answer: they can see and hear ANYTHING you do if they wanted to LIVE, in REAL time. And the 'analysts' who see and hear this, don't really need a court order to do it.

Banking companies do it all the time, using keystroke loggers on their own employees computers for security and audit purposes. I.T. departments can see EXACTLY what you are looking at on your own computer screen, LIVE, in real time, if they want to. And all this news about what the NSA is doing is surprising? Really? What do you think your company can do with YOUR 'work' cell phone? Take a guess. And if they can do it, what do you think the NSA can do? Come on people.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize this, especially in this day and age. Then again, perhaps you should read more. Ignoring or not using modern technological capabilities doesn't make them non-existent, it just means you're ignorant.

We really didn't have to bug the entire United States, let alone most of the rest of the world to stop the hostilities of aggressive MUSLIM nations run by egotistical evil self-serving tyrants who steal, i.e. EMBEZZLE, all the 'AID' they receive from the United States and who care next to nothing for their own people. Really, all we had to do was bomb the hell out of anyone who harmed our citizens, and let those enemies of ours deal with the mess they caused and rebuild themselves if they STILL harbored animosity against the United States. It worked in WW-II, but only because there were NO considerations for collateral damage, which resulted in a populace which was FORCED to rethink their 'ways' AND THEIR LEADERS. Since they did, we helped them, and they're now allies.

In case anybody hasn't noticed, the people in Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the Muslim world for that matter, have NOT relented of their hatred of the West. They kill and rape us anytime they have a chance, when they're not too busy killing each other in the name of their 'peaceful religion'.

Haven't seen any pictures of the bodies of our fallen war hero's, have we? Perhaps there's a reason for that. Perhaps if we saw those, this entire country would declare a righteous war in a heartbeat against the animals who rape, torture and kill our warriors and people. But perhaps everyone's too 'peace-loving' for those sentiments, until it shows up at your own doorstep...

But since everyone wants to be politically correct, including assuming that the "moderates" in Islam are peace-lovers, and that we all should be their 'friends', well, we all just sealed our own fate.

Having cameras on every street corner, and bugging every PC and phone in America won't catch or stop the bad guys who hate us.

And people really believe our enemies didn't ALREADY know all about our eavesdropping capabilities? Really? Who again is that NAIVE?

FYI, Our enemies who hate us are all just laughing at us because of the ineptitude, stupidity and cowardice of our 'leaders' and the people who have been blinded by political correctness.

You'll find it's a weakness none of them are burdened with. They don't care for Americans, Christians, or Jews. In fact, they hate our guts, and that's the truth.

So much for 'tolerance'.

Our enemies have none.

There is only one country in Africa and the Middle East where one SHOULD be safe and live peacefully with rights similar to those of our own nation, and that is the tiny country of Israel.

I said, SHOULD be safe, because those few million brave Israeli's have been holding out against hundreds of millions of surrounding Arabs who hate them and love to blow them up at every opportunity. Hence the 'should' be safe comment. And what does the U.S. do? We FORCE them to have idiotic 'peace processes' which endanger their citizens and practically prevent them from defending themselves. Yet when the U.S. is attacked, we (rightly!) start wars! The word for that people, is HYPOCRISY, and it's had MURDEROUS results for the Israelis.

So now we have an Administration which is obsequious to the point of nausea towards Muslims, especially Al-Qaeda linked Muslims (see Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Syrian and Libyan Rebels, and I thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists?), yet is more than willing to turn a blind eye to the welfare of Israel and leave them twisting in the wind with barely an outward show of support. The situation is not only revolting and HYPOCRITICAL, it's TRAITOROUS, and will only get worse. The brave hero's of the Alamo would have been disgusted with the way this country has dealt with the vastly outnumbered Israelis (who look just like US, because they're RELATED!), and with our own people.

This country is way overloaded with STUPID right now, and it WILL be the death of us, LITERALLY.