If the first option is implemented, it removes the solider from the equation of whether he would fire on his own countrymen.... it puts it squarely in the hands of a politician...
these are quite chilling coupled with the events of the live fire trainings in 12+ major cities...
I am not feeling very loved by my government right now..
so you go ahead and believe as you wish... I am done arguing with you.. even when facts are presented you try to change/spin it to suite your argument... enjoy the day.
Littlerock 1957
Woodrow Wilson Mann, the Mayor of Little Rock, asked President Eisenhower to send federal troops to enforce integration and protect the nine students. On September 24, the President ordered the 101st Airborne Division of the United States Army to Little Rock and federalized the entire 10,000 member Arkansas National Guard, taking it out of the hands of Faubus
you think for one monment that the 101 would hesitate if a errant shot rang out?
"On 28 July, 1932, Attorney General Mitchell ordered the police evacuation of the Bonus Army veterans. When they resisted the police shot at them, killing two. When told of this, President Hoover ordered the army to effect the evacuation of the Bonus Army from Washington.
At 4:45 p.m., commanded by Gen. Douglas MacArthur, the 12th Infantry Regiment, Fort Howard, Maryland, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six battle tanks commanded by Maj. George S. Patton, Fort Myer, Virginia, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of civil service employees left work to line the street and watch the U.S. Army attack its own veterans. The Bonus Marchers, believing the display was in their honor, cheered the troops until Maj. Patton ordered the cavalry to charge them—an action which prompted the civil service spectators to yell, "Shame! Shame!"
After the cavalry charged the infantry, with fixed bayonets and adamsite gas, entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp and President Hoover ordered the assault stopped. However Gen. MacArthur, feeling this exercise was a Communist attempt at overthrowing the U.S. government, ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Hundreds of veterans were injured and several killed—including William Hushka and Eric Carlson. A veteran's wife miscarried."
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kent state...well I lived 20 miles from kent, in may 1970 @ bolyston rd akron O. I am very aware what transpired there.
Blair mountain...
Army air core bombs the miners, I would call that firing on its citizens...
and finally.. our fine goverment, aided by the military doing bad thing to its own people... http://rense.com/general56/biolog.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
US Biological Attacks And
Operations On US Citizens
8-7-4
1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.
1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.
1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.
1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.
1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.
1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.
1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.
1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.
1945 "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.
1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.
1947 Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.
1947 The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.
1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.
1950 In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.
1951 Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.
1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.
1953 Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.
1953 CIA initiates Project MK ULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.
1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.
1955 Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.
1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.
1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.
1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.
1965 CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MK SEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.
1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.
1966 CIA initiates Project MK OFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.
1966 U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.
1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MK NAOMI, successor to MK ULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.
1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.
1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.
1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.
1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.
1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).
1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.
1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.
1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine
1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.
1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.
1986 A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.
1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.
1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.
1994 With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.
1994 Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War .
1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.
1995 Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.
1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.
1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.
nope never implied the slightest that any enlisted were anything other than what they are... the ability to question orders is a right. whether that right is exercise is another story...sheepel is common...
all it takes is the military on the ground in the USA in a police action.. and bad stuff will happen.....
that like swatting a fly with a atom bomb.... armed forces are not a precision force, like LEOs, they are a broadsword in neurosurgery...
see 1957 Eisenhower and Arkansas ... see also Matewan Massacre, Battle of Blair Mountain and The Bonus Army as to what armed forces on U.S. soil and questing orders, and dont forget Kent State...
LOOK all I want is for you to call your Congressman and senators.. and express displeasure with Blackhawks firing /strafing road 395 100 ft off the deck and endangering the people....or you can call and support it... thats what this is all about.. I think that the people (us) should approve any OP on civilian territory , not the city... because its our neighborhoods and private property, and well as public property(we are the public after all) they are on (Army/whatever)...
my take...they are drilling for local insurrection.. you see it different.... fine... all the whooey in between about who supports what and calls who what is impudent.
Andrew wrote:
It's not an excerpt, it's opinion piece containing excerpts and the thrust of the Op-Ed is that it's Bull DooDoo. The most telling piece is last sentence concerning the lack of a DoD disclaimer. There is no way that article was released through channels and PAO didn't slap a disclaimer on it. Example "Disclaimer -
The views expressed in this academic research paper are those of the author(s) and do not
reflect the official policy or position of the US government or the Department of Defense. "
Further, Not only is it Bull DooDoo it's out of date Bull DooDoo. The U.S. Army has shifted from "Full Spectrum Operations" to "Unified Land Operations" (ADP3-0 04 October 2011) The doctrine they are promulgating is history. It's Fiction, these people write to get paid, and as the General said, I'll paraphrase,"He's a Colonel nobody is listening, it doesn't count, it's Bull DooDoo!"
As far as your analysis that this training is targeting Americans because we're not fighting anyone with similar infrastucture, 50 story buildings, etc. two words "Asymetrical" "Warfare". Do you think the BGs can't use an elevator in L.A., Houston, Miami, or Denver? If our enemies are capable of learning how to fly modern jet airliners, I'm sure that can push a button in an elevator car and listen to Muzak as they ride up. Or crash a truck through a gate at a power station, t.v. studio, nuke plant, etc. Joint Training is important. It builds trust, confidence and awareness in the strengths and weaknesses of people and organizations that you rely on to keep you from being dead. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17/us ... -colorado/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; We certainly need to be aware of what our government is doing, but believe me there are Scary People out there who really want to kill you, me, all of us here in our homes and dance around the corpses. I prefer to support our men and women in the military, of what ever rank, that are committed to our defense, rather than defame them through conflating their training to a conspiracy to kill Ameican Citizens.
as far as considering it fact.. I implied it was the global scope not direct actionable nor a current mil procedure... the out line of the story is the implication not the contents...I never implied in the vaguest it was or has anything to do with mil or jsoc...you misunderstand my intent... my intent is the outline... and your more than welcome to believe what you wish.... so what is your explanation of this current jsoc op? and it is JSOC not army...
as for the BGs taking a elevator.... it would be local LEO that would handle the Bg or any other type unless there was a full on invasion.. ARMY is to slow to react to a BG in a elevator... local police, sheriff, constable, DPS, swat, and Texas marshals would be the responders, and like wise the local constabulary of any other state/city.. I dissagree that the jsoc would be looking at BGs in elevators on the 50th floor.. to slow to resopnd, and it would be deemed a local mater... unless the BG halo pop by the hundreds in to pokipsy..... as to supporting the troops... my father was WWII, in the pacific, (bronze star, silver star, purple heart) my older bro nam(2ppl hearts, and silver star)(rip) me, Nam too, my son 8 years sub, fast attack navy second time in to iraq (GB2).
I shoot every thursday night with 70% vets. 2 are Marine snipers(one nam, one afgan), 2 reserve seals, 1 seabee, 2 grunts, 1 coastguard, 2 chairforce, 1 dod afgan shall I go on? dont ever call me out as to not supporting vets or active duty.. sir I take great exception to your implications I do support our finest. I have many young friends serving right now, 3 in country(afgan), and 2 getting ready for deployment in December... and I dont chastise our service men.. I chastise our legislature and joint chiefs for targeting u.s. citizenry...
NOTE in all the video.. this JSOC doing all the repelling, and JSOC flying the blackhawks and Loachs..... I did not see one LEO repelling on to a roof, or flying a Blackhawk, nor did I see LEO on the swift boats in Miami storming the docks.... all the LEOs did was crowd control....joint training? please.....
that was the denver op.. 20 soviet paratroopers seized 3 key buildings. us special forces were to take it back.. it was a drill.... last year... google it...
however there were 20 real soviet paratroops on US soil and saw operational procedures by SOCOM.
old farmer wrote:
You train to develop skills and prefect plans of operation.
What is the plan?
the plan is to put down domestic insurrection...
there are no know theaters of operation I know of where we are currently or thinking of that include dense populations, and 50+ story high rise buildings, unless we plan on going to war with some G-8 to G20 nations.
read the full story.. the reason for coordination with civil authorities, local intel, taps, etc... its all in the story... while the full context does not apply. the scope of the story is in full play...
Andrew wrote:
We're already past this.
The vision is hard to take seriously. As retired ArmyBrig. Gen. Russell D. Howard, a former professor at West Point, observed earlier in his career, “I am a colonel, colonels write a lot of crazy stuff, but no one listens to colonels, so I don’t see the problem.”
Andrew.. funny you link is a excerpt of the full text I posted a link to... All I am really asking is that people call their congressman and senators to voice displeasure... by doing so you let them know what they are up to.. just like the many petitions by the NRA, Ruger, and alike which have made a difference.... please use your voice to quell... we are not past it yet... not until the first shot is fired in anger, then we are way past it...
I have never been a activist... till this.. and I am trying to get as many people to call and express their concerns to the legislative... it will make a difference.
my version. by the way.. I have never taken on a thing like this before....I bit hard on this because frankly seeing loach and blackhawk choppers 100 feet off the deck strafing a freeway, and Spec OPs repelling to a roof of a 50 story high rise scared the crap outa me......I know some here took the oath of office, as I did so many years ago, and know you dont train for a OP with out intent of doing the op....
CALL your congressman and senators and tell them you are displeased the U.S. citizenry being used as tactical training objects by the military... This is not only in Houston, Miami, and Galveston.... include St.Louis, LA, Denver, Chicago, Minneapolis, Bangor, Worchester and a couple more... I found what I think is reason or perhaps the spark of inspiration in a plan out lined by 2 college professors in Ks.
read the full story on the link.... it almost mirrors this training... I agree with a previous post in that Pavlov's dog might be in play.
"Small wars are operations undertaken under executive authority, wherein military force is combined with diplomatic pressure in the internal or external affairs of another state whose government is unstable, inadequate, or unsatisfactory for the preservation of life and of such interests as are determined by the foreign policy of our Nation.
TITLE
Full Spectrum Operations in the Homeland: A “Vision” of the Future
by Kevin Benson and Jennifer Weber
The U.S. Army’s Operating Concept 2016-2028 was issued in August 2010 with three goals. First, it aims to portray how future Army forces will conduct operations as part of a joint force to deter conflict, prevail in war, and succeed in a range of contingencies, at home and abroad. Second, the concept describes the employment of Army forces at the tactical and operational levels of war between 2016 and 2028. Third, in broad terms the concept describes how Army headquarters, from theater army to division, organize and use their forces. The concept goes on to describe the major categories of Army operations, identify the capabilities required of Army forces, and guide how force development should be prioritized. The goal of this concept is to establish a common frame of reference for thinking about how the US Army will conduct full spectrum operations in the coming two decades (US Army Training and Doctrine Command, The Army Operating Concept 2016 – 2028, TRADOC Pamphlet 525-3-1, dated 19 August 2010, p. iii. Hereafter cited as TD Pam 525-3-1. The Army defines full spectrum operations as the combination of offensive, defensive, and either stability operations overseas or civil support operations on U.S. soil).
