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03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:21 pm
And herein lies the problem. People working under a total misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of addiction. It is not to say you are a bad guy to be sure.

Actually, Opiate addiction is almost always proceeded by an injury that requires the use of opiate pain medications to simply function and get through life.

No addiction can be compared to aids simply because there is no aids gene. Many people, if not most, can drink and or use drugs on occasion and NEVER become addicted. An addict/alcoholics brain is wired different and the affects are also different.

I understand your thinking on this but it parallels the fifty plus years of failure in the war on drugs. It has also been proven incorrect in recent years.

I do respect your opinion on it all and must say that it was mine as well before working with addicts/alcoholics for the past 7 years.

Either man has free will or he doesn't. I classify addicts into two types. Those poor souls with chronic pain that have become addicted to opiates to relieve their pain just so they can function. They are not using drugs to get high but just to live. They are not a threat to society and are more likely to die of liver failure due to the Tylenol which is usually part of their pain meds and is liver toxic. These people because of the war on drugs and because of stupid new drug restrictions are forced into street drugs to support themselves. I feel deeply for these people.

Then there are the drug users that are in it for the high. They have made a conscious choice to start drugs. They may be the dredges of society or "good" kids from "good" families. They have free will though and have decided to use drugs by choice. They may die of a fentanyl overdose on their first try. They may become addicts. Their choice and not predestined by a genetic defect (unless their mother used drugs when carrying them). Unfortunate if they die of drug use but the choice to play Russian roulette is their choice and I don't have to support them or pay for them. Choice is the word be it alcohol, meth, heroin, cocaine or nicotine. There is no addiction gene. There are sites in the brain that once activated created an addiction. My brain has those sites for nicotine therefore I choose to NEVER use nicotine again as I will immediately activate that addiction if I do. It is my CHOICE not to become addicted to nicotine again just as it was my choice to smoke as a teenager . Choice, not genetics.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:06 am

rotor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:38 am

RoyGBiv wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:12 am
We all know that people who would do bad things with guns are going to get guns, just like people who abuse drugs are going to get drugs. So... How about we try something else? Take away the illegal market, deprive the gangs and cartels of funds. View drug abuse as the mental health issue that really is and make an effort to address it that way, ala Portugal... I'm no expert in the field, but it's plain to me that the current plan is failing miserably, despite any good intentions.

You may view drug abuse as a mental health issue, I don't. I personally would not be against mandatory death penalty for sellers of drugs (not marijuana) and possession treated like some of the countries with long jail sentences like Malaysia. You would like to see state run drug outlets. I don't know which of us is correct but I don't want to see the U.S. become a huge opium den with a mindless population. They are mindless enough now.

Addiction, alcohol, drugs, eating or what ever one is addicted to is neither a mental "disorder" nor a choice. It is a disease just like cancer and can only be treated and not cured.

Treatment is the proper place to put the billions of dollars presently being wasted in the war on drugs. When there is no demand, there is no supply. One more time... the key to it is understanding that addiction is NOT a choice. It is genetic just like being fat, muscular or smart.

Unless the mother was on drugs while carrying a fetus one is not born with an addiction. One acquires an addiction but first one has to use the drug to activate the addiction. The use of the drug requires conscious effort (unless one has been forced to use the drug). Once addicted to the drug then one has the disease of addiction. But in almost every case the disease was caused by a conscious use of a drug. If you know a person has HIV and you purposely have unprotected sex and acquire HIV you then have a disease but you activated that disease by your conscious effort. I was a tobacco user as a youngster and fought the disease of addiction to nicotine which is an extremely powerful addiction. My mother smoked while she was pregnant. Nobody knew the risks then. The choice to smoke though was my mother's and mine as as a teen. Just like elections have consequences, drug use has consequences but we all make a choice. I am a libertarian in that I don't deny you the choice but I don't want to pay to fix your mistake. I can think of better uses for the billions needed to treat other peoples bad behavior.

RoyGBiv wrote: ↑Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:12 am
We all know that people who would do bad things with guns are going to get guns, just like people who abuse drugs are going to get drugs. So... How about we try something else? Take away the illegal market, deprive the gangs and cartels of funds. View drug abuse as the mental health issue that really is and make an effort to address it that way, ala Portugal... I'm no expert in the field, but it's plain to me that the current plan is failing miserably, despite any good intentions.

You may view drug abuse as a mental health issue, I don't. I personally would not be against mandatory death penalty for sellers of drugs (not marijuana) and possession treated like some of the countries with long jail sentences like Malaysia. You would like to see state run drug outlets. I don't know which of us is correct but I don't want to see the U.S. become a huge opium den with a mindless population. They are mindless enough now.

RoyGBiv wrote: ↑Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:44 pm

rotor wrote: ↑Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:26 pm A young girl from a drug addicted family home is dead probably trying to feed her own drug addiction. So we want to legalize more drugs. I wouldn't be surprised if the knife was planted but the shooting was appropriate in any case.

The war on drugs has been such a success that you're not even a little interested in trying something different?

I didn't say that I wanted to continue the war on drugs but do you think that making dangerously addicting drugs more available to young people is a good idea? It's good I guess if you sell the drugs to everyone like the tobacco companies have done. Having been a smoker when I was young I know how hard it is to fight the addiction of nicotine. Perhaps the Malaysian way is the way to go. I personally don't have any sympathy for people that knowingly use drugs and become addicted. Do you think the girl in this posting would be alive today if not for her drug use?

Or perhaps we should have opium dens so that the populace could be enslaved by politicians and be happy while it's being done. People will always use drugs whether legal or not and I don't care if they overdose and die or become addicted. Darwin in action. Like Russian roulette. You play the game and you may die.

A young girl from a drug addicted family home is dead probably trying to feed her own drug addiction. So we want to legalize more drugs. I wouldn't be surprised if the knife was planted but the shooting was appropriate in any case.