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Soccerdad1995 wrote:

rotor wrote:

Abraham wrote:O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?

30.06/07 legislation specifically says the business can give you a card (properly worded) that bars carrying without putting a sign at the entrance. I guess it can be used as an alternative to signs at the entrance and may even have the potential for discrimination. Let's say they only give the 30.07 to old white men but not young hispanics carrying openly. Complain to the legislators if you don't like it but it is written into the law. Not the old white man part but the methods of notifying are very clearly written into 06/07.

I have yet to encounter a business that has taken the "card" approach. This might be due to the fact that such an approach opens up a lot of gray area, and would be nigh impossible to implement with 100% certainty. Do you station someone at all doors to ensure that every person gets a card? What do you do about the people who will decline and just keep walking? Do you have your "card person" chase them into the store, thereby leaving their post and not insuring that other visitors get cards? Or maybe they lock the doors while they are doing the chasing?

To me, this seems like a very difficult way to mandate that your customers conform to your beliefs about their personal behavior that impacts no one else. It would be simpler and better, IMHO to post the correct signage. And it would be even better to just stop worrying about the actions of complete strangers that have no impact whatsoever on you or anyone else.

I have never been anywhere either that handed out such cards. Someone posted though that their church doesn't post 06/07 but if someone open carry's they hand them an 07 card. If someone doesn't follow they are trespassing and reason to call the police. Look, as far as I am concerned I think that a LTC holder should be able to carry everywhere but nobody listens to me. No exemptions. Carry everywhere. The reason is simple, I can be attacked anywhere. Standing in line to vote does not give me immunity to a gunshot.
As an aside, when I was in the service and my hair was getting a little long my CO would slip a note into my hand that said "haircut".

Abraham wrote:O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?

30.06/07 legislation specifically says the business can give you a card (properly worded) that bars carrying without putting a sign at the entrance. I guess it can be used as an alternative to signs at the entrance and may even have the potential for discrimination. Let's say they only give the 30.07 to old white men but not young hispanics carrying openly. Complain to the legislators if you don't like it but it is written into the law. Not the old white man part but the methods of notifying are very clearly written into 06/07.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:Tex has a great summary above. To me a "no firearms" sign on a business means something similar to a "no gas" sign at a gas station, or a "no vacancy" sign at a hotel / motel. It is simple English. The place in question does not have the thing that comes after the word "no". If I drive onto a gas station that has a sign saying "no gas", am I going to be arrested because there is some gas in the tank of my car? Or does that sign simply mean the same thing as a "no firearms" sign? That the gas station does not have any gas for sale at the moment?

Hopefully you never have to use that interpretation in court. Certainly very creative though.

treadlightly wrote:So a gun buster sign is legal, but only applies to people already prohibited from carrying firearms?

Not trying to pop off, just trying to see what use a gun buster sign has. I generally go elsewhere because I figured there's other baggage going along with the anti-gun nonsense, but I also feel the "mail not addressed to me" attitude makes some sense, too.

I could see that a person that had been to a field sporting event could be staying at a hotel that might have a gun buster sign. The person would be legal carrying his gun to his room but might be trespassing if a No Firearms sign was posted that was clearly identifiable.

The purple paint law is well described in the statute so there is little question about what was intended. The red circle slash sign though has iso-standards for what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in a sign just like 30.06/07 have standards in size, block letters, etc. There is no description in the Texas code of what an acceptable red circle/slash gun sign should be or even an expectation of what it should mean. The TABC red sign does not use the red circle slash gun sign. They also use specific language and refer only to handguns. Illinois has a state approved downloadable gun buster sign that must be followed exactly to be valid just like Texas 30.06/07 must be followed exactly.
I can accept a No Weapons sign as valid in Texas. I just don't accept a non worded red circle slash sign with a gun as valid. Even the Illinois one has their legislative code number printed on it. The iso-standards for these red circle signs are proprietary and you have to buy the listing to even see what their signs are.
Texas does use some of the red circle signs for traffic such as the no left turn sign and these apparently are universal traffic signs (iso-standard) but I could find no reference to a red circle slash handgun (Beretta or otherwise). As far as the traffic signs, you are tested on the meaning when you get a drivers license so these are "common knowledge". Put a gun in the sign instead of a left turn does not automatically mean no firearms, handguns, or long guns allowed.

srothstein wrote:

skeathley wrote:"Gun-buster" refers to the gun in a circle, the intl symbol for no guns. By itself, it has no legal status in Texas. "No guns", "no weapons", "no firearms", etc. are all non-conforming signs, and have no force of law in Texas, including with knives.

I disagree on this. The signs are legal in Texas and can be enforced. They are not applicable to a person with an LTC carrying a pistol, but are all legal under Penal Code section 30.05 for everyone else or for other weapons.

What would be enforced? What are the size requirements? What other weapons? What percentage of the sign needs to be red? Does the sign have to have specific borders like in Illinois? How about long guns? How does the public know what a Beretta in a red circle with a slash specifically means? I know this has no effect on LTC holders but how about a gun owner bringing a gun into a hotel room where such a sign is posted outside? Especially if there is no wording on the sign. This can be enforced by law enforcement?

We always hear about such signs and regardless about what DPS is instructing, what exactly is a gun buster sign and what legal status does it hold?

Is it a "No Weapons Allowed" which would include knives? Is it a "No Firearms" which I guess would include long guns and handguns? Is it a pistol with a slash through it which to me means nothing without some wording to it?

I am not asking about 30.06/07 which is well defined but signs that are meant to prohibit something for non-LTC holders or other weapons that a license holder might carry.

So, if you saw a "No Weapons Sign" while carrying your trusty 1911 and a knife would you dump the knife? Do so called gun buster signs have any legal "no trespassing" status that carrying for example a knife beyond a no weapons sign could get one "the ride"? How about a rifle past a "No Firearms? sign? Anyone make anything of the Beretta/slash sign with no wording?