TexasCHLforum.com

jimlongley wrote:

RX8er wrote:

Keith B wrote: they are 'Hey, hold my beer and watch this!'

I remember reading an NTSB report that had the same thing on the cockpit voice recorder.

Here is another very interesting official NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 8632&key=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 17 years as a volunteer fireman, rescue squad member and EMT, I was "privileged" to hear the cockpit recordings of several air crashes, and they were usually obscene.

Keith B wrote: they are 'Hey, hold my beer and watch this!'

Keith B wrote:

RX8er wrote:

baldeagle wrote:Don't worry guys. In a little while the problem will be solved for you. The US DoT is mandating black boxes in all new cars starting in 2014. Once that happens the cops won't even have to patrol or use radar any more. The government will simply upload your data weekly and send you tickets for each time you exceeded the speed limit.



Ain't technology great?

The vast majority of new cars in the last couple years have had black boxes in them.

They do use them in accident investigation. I had some good friends that were killed by a guy that was speeding. He was driving a GMC Envoy. Analysis of the box indicated he was going 98 MPH when he went hit the curb, went air-born and sheered the top off of their mini van. This was in a 40 MPH zone and at an intersection. He was the only one to survive, but is paralyzed and now serving a 15 year sentence for vehicular manslaughter.

Your Lexus is equipped with several sophisticated computers that will record certain
data, such as:
• Engine speed
• Electric motor speed (traction motor speed) (hybrid vehicles)
• Accelerator status
• Brake status
• Vehicle speed
• Shift position
• Hybrid battery (traction battery) status (hybrid vehicles)
The recorded data varies according to the vehicle grade level and options with which
it is equipped. Furthermore, these computers do not record conversations, sounds or
pictures.
●Data usage
Lexus may use the data recorded in these computers to diagnose malfunctions,
conduct research and development, and improve quality.
Lexus will not disclose the recorded data to a third party except:
• With the consent of the vehicle owner or with the consent of the lessee if the
vehicle is leased
• In response to an official request by the police, a court of law or a government
agency
• For use by Lexus in a lawsuit
• For research purposes where the data is not tied to a specific vehicle or vehicle
owner
●Usage of data collected through Safety Connect / Lexus Enform (U.S. mainland
only)
If your Lexus has Safety Connect or Lexus Enform and if you have subscribed to
those services, please refer to the Safety Connect / Lexus Enform Telematics Subscription Service Agreement for information on data collected and its usage.

This vehicle is equipped with an event data recorder (EDR). The main purpose of an
EDR is to record, in certain crash or near crash-like situations, such as an air bag
deployment or hitting a road obstacle, data that will assist in understanding how a
vehicle’s systems performed. The EDR is designed to record data related to vehicle
dynamics and safety systems for a short period of time, typically 30 seconds or less.
The EDR in this vehicle is designed to record such data as:
• How various systems in your vehicle were operating;
• Whether or not the driver and passenger safety belts were buckled/fastened;
• How far (if at all) the driver was depressing the accelerator and/or brake pedal;
and,
• How fast the vehicle was traveling.
These data can help provide a better understanding of the circumstances in which
crashes and injuries occur.
NOTE: EDR data are recorded by your vehicle only if a nontrivial crash situation
occurs; no data are recorded by the EDR under normal driving conditions and no
personal data (e.g., name, gender, age, and crash location) are recorded. However,
other parties, such as law enforcement, could combine the EDR data with the type of
personally identifying data routinely acquired during a crash investigation.
To read data recorded by an EDR, special equipment is required, and access to the
vehicle or the EDR is needed. In addition to the vehicle manufacturer, other parties,
such as law enforcement, that have the special equipment, can read the information
if they have access to the vehicle or the EDR.
●Disclosure of the EDR data
Lexus will not disclose the data recorded in an EDR to a third party except when:
• An agreement from the vehicle’s owner (or the lessee for a leased vehicle) is
obtained
• In response to an official request by the police, a court of law or a government
agency
• For use by Lexus in a lawsuit
However, if necessary, Lexus may:
• Use the data for research on vehicle safety performance
• Disclose the data to a third party for research purposes without disclosing information about the specific vehicle or vehicle owner

baldeagle wrote:Don't worry guys. In a little while the problem will be solved for you. The US DoT is mandating black boxes in all new cars starting in 2014. Once that happens the cops won't even have to patrol or use radar any more. The government will simply upload your data weekly and send you tickets for each time you exceeded the speed limit.



Ain't technology great?

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

RX8er wrote:

OldCurlyWolf wrote:Out on the open road I run a gps program that keeps a continuous log of my speed, location and heading. If I have to go to court over a mistaken ID stop, I am going to win.

Good luck with that. Do a quick Google for it as many I have read about are not successful.

At one time, when I was gadgetizing my RX8, I thought about adding in audio/video for the front, sides and rear. On a Mobile PC forum I was in, there were countless posts of people taking certified GPS records to court and still loosing.

The main reason, if you go in to court and you are registered on video for 1 mph over, the ticket will stick because you were speeding. Google it an read about it. There was one guy that was so tin foil hat that he even recorded the court proceeding and posted that up. Sure enough, the judge found him guilty, even though the LEO was off by 10 mph. She reduced hist $283 (something like that) down to $150 + court costs at $50.

Since I normally run at least 5mph under the limit on the highway, I do believe that my chances of winning are nearly 100%.

srothstein wrote:Shasta,

You can fight the ticket if you want. There are several ways to argue a speeding ticket. If you want to say you were not doing the indicated speed, I do not give you high odds on winning without some hard evidence of your sped, such as a GPS track that was live recording and shows the time. In addition, in the eyes of the law, the amount of speed over the limit is irrelevant. If you admit to one mile over, you admit you have broken the law and that is what the judge looks at.

You could argue the equipment malfunctioned, but that is also very hard to prove. You can subpoena the maintenance log for the radar gun to see if you want tot try that tack. Almost as hard is arguing that the officer did not know how to run it properly. You can subpoena his training records, again to see if it is worth trying that tack.

You can also argue that the search was illegal. Use of radar constitutes a search which must be predicated on probable cause. But most traffic courts will not agree that radar is a search because the judges are not always trained lawyers. There is no legal requirement to be a lawyer to be appointed a municipal court judge or get elected JP. Many cops will also disagree on if radar is a search or not. So I do not give this one high odds either.

Finally, you can argue that you wee not speeding, even if you were going faster than what was posted. The actual law is that you can not go faster than what is reasonable and prudent and the posted sign is just a prima facie case. If you can convince the judge that the posted sign is too low, you win. With a 75 MPH posted limit, I have trouble thinking the judge will buy this one also, but it is really the best bet in my opinion.

As you can see, I don't have a lot of faith in your beating a ticket in a trial, but it can happen. Without some evidence of your speed (such as that GPS track), it comes down to your word against the officer's. You would need to impeach his testimony to win. You would have to show that he has a better reason to lie than you do, which is very hard.

Which leads me to my advice to take the defensive driving court or work some other plea bargain (such as most of those lawyers do). Not really a fair system, but a fact of life.

OldCurlyWolf wrote:Out on the open road I run a gps program that keeps a continuous log of my speed, location and heading. If I have to go to court over a mistaken ID stop, I am going to win.

The_Busy_Mom wrote:Had the same thing happen to me a couple of years ago. This car was speeding by a cop in the right lane as I moved from the center to the right. I was in no way speeding the 10 miles over he said I was. I am sure he clocked the car in front of me when he thought he was clocking me. I have a Commercial Drivers License, and you can't take Defensive Driving to get moving violations dismissed. So I have a point on my license that I will never be able to get off. Very annoying. My husband, who gets a ticket a year, likes to tease me about it because he knows it gets me worked up. I'm the first to admit when I am wrong, but in this case, I was not the one speeding. But I had to eat the cost and take the point. Grrrr....

My suggestion is to get one of those traffic lawyers whose job it is to make speeding tickets go away. Seems to work for my husband!!

TBM